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Thread: The Future of DJing: No more 'songs'

  1. #1
    empath, tap me! empath's Avatar
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    The Future of DJing: No more 'songs'

    Okay, so i've been thinking about this alot recently.

    So, what's a DJ, and what's dance music?

    A DJ is a guy that mixes songs in order, right?

    I'm thinking that that is no longer necessarily the case.

    With the new software coming out, sure, you can still do that. In fact, you can do it even easier than you can with using vinyl. But why should you when you can seriously advance dance music forward.

    I'm just going to talk about trance, because that's what I know.

    A typical trance record is about 6-9 minutes long. It has an intro, breakdown, melody, breakdown, outro... or something like that.

    Why? Is that the ideal way to construct dance music? Or the right way to play a set, repeating the same structure over and over and over again? Of course not.

    The reason why has to do with economics. You have to sell music on pieces of plastic. Vinyl only has the ability to play one 'track' at a time. Playing more than 2 records at a time is an unusual skill and playing more than 3 is damn near impossible for most djs.

    So 'dance music' as sold now is largely designed to be 'complete' -- a full song in length, but also in uh... depth, i guess is the word i want to use-- it has all the parts needed for a full musical experience, from percussion to vocals to melodies. Only the intro's and outros are intentionally designed to be 'mixed'.

    Fast Laptops and new software allow you to change all that.

    Just as an example--- If you're playing trance, why should every record have a different bass kick? Say you have one that you really like and you just want to ride it out for 30 or 40 minutes... You can't really do that with vinyl. You can play around with EQ's but really, there's only so much you can do.

    If all of your tracks are broken down into components and loops though, you can do that with software easily. Throw on a drum loop, add an acid line, add a melody... you can do everything in real time... with software synths and midi keyboards you can do even more.

    And if you network a few laptops together, you can 'tagteam' with a few other guys and really do some elaborate stuff...

    I think it's going to start with people just copying their records to their laptops and gradually adding their own new productions and sharing loops with other guys doing the same thing, but eventually, DJs and producers are going to see a market for it and start selling cds full of loops and synth patches so you can really deconstruct and rebuild their songs.

    Does anyone else see things going the same way?

  2. #2
    EXIT Matt Sanborn's Avatar
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    Check out Ableton Live. I have it in the studio but most use it for dj applications.

    Songs are a thing of beauty tho...just because you can mix 4 things together doesnt mean u should. Each track should be enjoyed for what it is, a production by an artist- first and formost....then remixing and mixing stuff with it secondary.

    and playing multiple tracks at once is not easy. We are doing 5 turntables/2 mixers at once tomorrow at the park party for Section 8 vs Exit (4 djs) and that is no easy task. From the words of Ken from ECB who has done lots of mixes on multi mixer mass-amounts of decks: "No matter how well you can beatmatch putting 3 songs together or more usually doesnt sound good musically". So one must be skillfull in doing so.

    anyhow- those where just my scatterbrain thoughts that maybe only caught the drift of what you were actually getting at- just my initial thought process on blerps I read
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    Pied Piper of the Crazies RAMIRO's Avatar
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    i played with a friend using two mixers and 4 tables..

    a hell of a lot harder than it looks..

    also.. all the dj's that are involved need to be somewhat in tuned to what the other is doing or its just destin to sound like Union Station
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    EXIT Matt Sanborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAMIRO
    i played with a friend using two mixers and 4 tables..

    a hell of a lot harder than it looks..

    also.. all the dj's that are involved need to be somewhat in tuned to what the other is doing or its just destin to sound like Union Station

    it is not easy at all.

    two people try to both pitch adjust to lock up two tracks and if you are both adjustin the same time (riding the pitch) it can be insta-trainwreck with the quickness.

    but we all are really in tune together and it sounds so cool I cant even tell you...tomorrow people will be blown.

    Invisible scratch pickles meets house music.

    juggling, scratching, etc- all to underground house.

    :drool:
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  5. #5
    empath, tap me! empath's Avatar
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    I was mainly thinking of ableton...

    But yeah, i know mixing 3 or 4 SONGS is hard.

    That's why i'm saying NO more songs.

    Build music out of loops, live... stop with records that have beginnings, middles and ends...

    Obviously, it's going to take a lot of practice and preparation, but so does learning how to beat match and figuring out what keys your records are in.

    AFAIK, ableton will even keymatch for you.

    But what i'm talking about is NOT USING TURNTABLES.

    And I'm talking about not using a laptop to just mimic what you can do with turntables. Use a laptop to do things that you CAN'T do on turntables.

    One of those things being layering and remixing tracks on the fly.
    Last edited by empath; 2005-05-27 at 01:07 PM.

  6. #6
    empath, tap me! empath's Avatar
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    Like -- Fuck EQuing -- just drop the bassline and drum out completely from the song and instantly replace it with the next one. COMPLETELY drop the vocal from one record out and replace it with another....

    Obviously, you can only do this with unmixed songs. That's why I'm saying people need to start selling tracks and loops seperately in addition to full songs. So you buy a CD with the new PVD single and everything that went into making, just like NIN did with their new single.

  7. #7
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    isnt that what supahstar dj sasha is doing nowadays?

  8. #8
    empath, tap me! empath's Avatar
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    :yes:

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    EXIT Matt Sanborn's Avatar
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    you can do all that in ableton live 4.0 i believe....grab a copy of it.
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  10. #10
    EXIT Matt Sanborn's Avatar
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    empath you better start making a lot two words or im going to have to pee on you.

    sorry- but thats just how it is
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  11. #11
    EXIT Matt Sanborn's Avatar
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    I'm talking full on golden shower too, not just a little dribble.
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  12. #12
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    Yes he is.... But Richie Hawtin is taking everything to the next level.... He has surpassed almost everyone... He is a very smart man
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  13. #13
    empath, tap me! empath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Sanborn
    empath you better start making a lot two words or im going to have to pee on you.

    sorry- but thats just how it is

    "I'm"

  14. #14
    empath, tap me! empath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO
    Yes he is.... But Richie Hawtin is taking everything to the next level.... He has surpassed almost everyone... He is a very smart man
    That's a good point-- which DJs are doing this right now?

    Anyone have links to live sets of guys doing this?

  15. #15
    Pied Piper of the Crazies RAMIRO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO
    Yes he is.... But Richie Hawtin is taking everything to the next level.... He has surpassed almost everyone... He is a very smart man
    :yes:
    he took that concept of breaking down a song to single out each component and then rework them all into a kick as set a long time ago

    i believe he did that with DE9, CLOSER TO EDIT, and CONSUME (not 100% sure about the last one)
    Last edited by RAMIRO; 2005-05-27 at 01:16 PM.
    motd="FOCUS!! : ) " MY TWITTER~~MY SOUNDCLOUD
    check out my newest mix :) = ~Summer Demo 2011~
    Quote Originally Posted by Catalyst View Post
    So in short, Ramiro is a double rainbow sparkly vampire.

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