dropping tracks by your headliner? y/n

[Broken Home]

I have never opened for an actual headliner so I'd like to hear from those of you that have. What's the "rule" here? If I open for Thomas Bangalter tomorrow, can I drop "Spinal Scratch"? :plurstick: Would it be considered giving him big-ups, or is it tasteless?

[john c]

the rule is, DONT do it. seriously. the guy who produced a song should have priority to play it over you. if u play it, he can't anymore. sure u can say he should bring new shit. but he prob does and prob still wants to play his classics. dont do it :)

[infectedskazi]

yea, i could see most headliners getting pissed, a dnb one might not but still who knows

[bkidz]

I've seen it done in good taste. Just don't drop all of their signature tracks.

This coming from a non-DJ. I could care less, as long as the beats are rockin'.

[crzy azn]

general rule of thumb would be no. might make the headliner happy, but could also piss them off if they wanted to drop a certian track that you already played.

[slim pickinz]

don't do it. i saw icey back in the day, and 2 other djs dropped icey tracks, i thought it was tacky.

[xgirl]

definitely do not do it. it's incredibly rude.

[dj nysus]

definitely do not do it. it's incredibly rude.


listen to her people .. she knows what she is talking about as she is a trained professional:star:

[Jenni XO]

Definitely a no-no. I have never opened for a headliner yet, but I've heard stories of people who have - and when they dropped a headliner's track, said headliner was not a happy camper.

[dj nysus]

I played nothing but Bassbin loops vol 1 on repeat when I opened for the Bassbin twins ... he loved it and was touching himself the whole time .........

[daniella downs]

do not do it.

and if you feel that you really need to do it, ASK the headliner first.

but generally, don't.

unless your name is dj proxxy, and you are playing a tune OFF the headliner's mix cd. then it's funny.

[beth]

i think its tasteless.

[bkidz]

do not do it.

and if you feel that you really need to do it, ASK the headliner first.

but generally, don't.

unless your name is dj proxxy, and you are playing a tune OFF the headliner's mix cd. then it's funny.

:haha: good one Ian.

[LOGO]

I voted "no" for all the reasons previously listed.

Remember, your job as an opening DJ is to warm up the crowd for the headliner, not to steal their thunder.
Playing a headliner's tracks is a huge insult to them, and makes you look like an arrogant novice DJ who either doesn't know—or doesn't care—what his role as an opener is supposed to be.

Now, I'll tell you what, if I ever get a chance to open for Bryan Jones or Joey Youngman, I'm gonna have problems, because I sweat their music big time.
I'm seriously going to have to go through my book, remove every one of their tracks, and lock them away, because the temptation would be so great to drop their tracks.

[dj nysus]

i think its tasteless.


and less filling

[Kill Box]

seems pretty damn stupid to stick to "rules" of DJing ... I mean yeah if it's a promo, recent track, or obviously a dubplate they gave you then it's pretty rude i think. otherwise, who cares.

[spiggums]

it's unprofessional... rude... and seriously a sign that you shouldn't have been opening in the first place...

I would also go so far as to say that if headliner is a label owner, it's generally a good idea to not drop anything from their label as well... i.e. I wouldn't drop anything from Turbo if I was opening for Tiga... nor have I dropped anything from Perspex when playing with Freeform Five...

[dj nysus]

very true

[Broken Home]

thanks for the input everyone

[DjLantern]

very good question dan

I would have to say no, even tho I have been guilty of this on occasion. Although a few times I would ask the headliner if it was ok if I dropped such and such and usually they were cool with it.

Another question is, what if you are playing the same room as the headliner opening up the night but not playing right before him. Should you still not play his tunes?

[Broken Home]

Another question is, what if you are playing the same room as the headliner opening up the night but not playing right before him. Should you still not play his tunes?

thanks peter.

first of all I want to say that if I were a headliner (and some day I will be, just wait) I would consider it an honor if my opener dropped one of my tracks. but anyway.... what do I know

[spiggums]

thanks peter.

first of all I want to say that if I were a headliner (and some day I will be, just wait) I would consider it an honor if my opener dropped one of my tracks. but anyway.... what do I know

yes but you have a different perspective here than a "headliner" would....

You don't have anything out production wise... where, on the flip side, if you had tracks out that were regularly charting... and clearly getting play by a multitude of DJs, I'm not saying you wouldn't be gracious and appreciative that people are playing your tunes... but you might not necessarily think it somehow special that the guy in front of you played one of your tracks at that point...

[john c]

ratify above statement 100%

[shade]

personally i wouldn't care. but i don't think i've ever done it before, either.

my favorite (somewhat) related story to this is when jungle jessi and skandalus opened up for dj rap years ago at nation. one of them dropped the spor remix of messiah towards the end of their set while rap was already in the booth, and she threw a total shit fit over it. she said it was "her signature track," and that she was going to play it and they shouldn't have played it before her. meanwhile, she had nothing to do with the remix nor the original, and it had already been out nearly a year.

haha
hehe
hoho

that's a good one.

[spiggums]

personally i wouldn't care. but i don't think i've ever done it before, either.

my favorite (somewhat) related story to this is when jungle jessi and skandalus opened up for dj rap years ago at nation. one of them dropped the spor remix of messiah towards the end of their set while rap was already in the booth, and she threw a total shit fit over it. she said it was "her signature track," and that she was going to play it and they shouldn't have played it before her. meanwhile, she had nothing to do with the remix nor the original, and it had already been out nearly a year.

haha
hehe
hoho

that's a good one.

yeah, see, that's kind of retarded...

[Funshine]

definitely do not do it. it's incredibly rude.
Yeah, my vote goes for "no" as wel. It's tacky.

[The Logic Theorist]

I make sure to play all the white labels and unreleased tunes I have by a headliner before they go on.

Bonus if they're mp3's I found on Napster or somesuch, and didn't actually pay money for any of them.

[maynard]

yes but you have a different perspective here than a "headliner" would....

You don't have anything out production wise... where, on the flip side, if you had tracks out that were regularly charting... and clearly getting play by a multitude of DJs, I'm not saying you wouldn't be gracious and appreciative that people are playing your tunes... but you might not necessarily think it somehow special that the guy in front of you played one of your tracks at that point...

This is probably the best phrased answer so far.

People are coming out to see the headliner drop those tracks, not the opener, no matter how talented they may be. I'm not a DJ by any stretch, but that sounds about right.

[phunkphreaker]

I agree with all the above statements.

A long time ago I almost did this opening for TCM at the Norva In Norfolk VA. I had thought about start my set with it, to ya know, set the mood for them coming on later, but decided against at the last minute after thinking about it.

Good thing too, Cause Ken Jordan was planning on, and did, open him and Scott's set with the exact same track.

[maynard]

I agree with all the above statements.

A long time ago I almost did this opening for TCM at the Norva In Norfolk VA. I had thought about start my set with it, to ya know, set the mood for them coming on later, but decided against at the last minute after thinking about it.

Good thing too, Cause Ken Jordan was planning on, and did, open him and Scott's set with the exact same track.

ha! I was there. Good times.

[Matt Sanborn]

umm...some of you are making it more of a big deal then it is. I have opened for headliners a gazillion times- and I never worry about what I play vs what anyone before or after me plays/is going to play.

djing rules are kind of silly.

[Broken Home]

They're kind of silly but not entirely, Matt. I say this not because I think a headliner flipping out the way DJ Rap did in the above story is appropriate. I just say that because, when I get to the point where I open for headliners, it will be in my best interest to make them as happy as possible, for obvious reasons. (booth head)

[Matt Sanborn]

Let me put it like this....as someone who releases records and has tunes out:

unless you are playing some track that you got directly from the producer and it is brand fucking new, anything you may have bought off of Beatport or bought on vinyl the guy who made it probably did it 6-8 months ago and is not something he is still playing currently.

[mojojones]

They're kind of silly but not entirely, Matt. I say this not because I think a headliner flipping out the way DJ Rap did in the above story is appropriate. I just say that because, when I get to the point where I open for headliners, it will be in my best interest to make them as happy as possible, for obvious reasons. (booth head)

i would say produce a super hot remix of one of said headliner's signature tracks and play that instead . . .

and see what the headliner thinks of that

[The Logic Theorist]

umm...some of you are making it more of a big deal then it is. I have opened for headliners a gazillion times- and I never worry about what I play vs what anyone before or after me plays/is going to play.

djing rules are kind of silly.

In all seriousness I'm kind of with Matt.

For -most- (note I'm not saying all) headliners by the time they have a track in full release on wax they're done playing it, so it shouldn't really matter if you play it or not. They -should- be playing stuff that they're working on getting released. Unless, of course, the tour is promoting an album, in which case I wouldn't play anything off the album being promoted.

But if you're really in doubt, just ask.

[john c]

disagree with you Matt. Trance jokes aside, its like opening for Paul van Dyk and playing "For An Angel". He still uses that shit in his finales. Lame or not, the point is to open FOR the big dj. I guess it depends, does the dj still play the song in his sets. The best thing to do, and it extends beyond the question of playing his songs, is to research and understand what type of music the headliner plays and play a warmup set below it relatively. Lets not forget what happened to Empath when he opened for Tiesto. Had Empath warmed up to Tiesto in a perfect way, its possible Tiesto would have requested Empath to always open for him when he was in DC. Sorry to call you John but you admitted you tried upstaging him. Playing a DJ's big songs falls under that bucket if he's still playing them. Also, it ruins the clubber's experience many times cause the headliner has no place to go. Opening a set is an art form onto itself.

[Matt Sanborn]

disagree with you Matt.... its like opening for Paul van Dyk and playing "For An Angel".


its ok bro...I totally dont understand that reference anyway.

:wink:

I get your drift tho.

[spiggums]

Opening a set is an art form onto itself.

This is key... and this will likely piss some people off... but I think it's something that most DJs in DC do not grasp...

I have had other DJs ask me why, when opening for other DJs, I did not "bang it out" and suggesting that I "must have been being nice" to the headliners on the night...

no... I was doing my fucking job... not to mention the fact that if you're banging shit out when people are first starting to wander in, they're likely to be a little daunted if it's nothing but hours of hard bangers all night...

[john c]

ya totally. some people say "well if the headliner was all that, he shouldnt be outstaged." People dont realize that the floor gets bored after x number of hours of the same music. If you are playing the same music as the headliner, you are diminishing the impact of the headiner's set. Its worth mentioning though, that many promoters will book DJs with no respect to their genre or style. DJs can only spin what they have. Booking a hard house dj to open for a deep house dj for example is bananas.

[spiggums]

ya totally. some people say "well if the headliner was all that, he shouldnt be outstaged." People dont realize that the floor gets bored after x number of hours of the same music. If you are playing the same music as the headliner, you are diminishing the impact of the headiner's set. Its worth mentioning though, that many promoters will book DJs with no respect to their genre or style. DJs can only spin what they have. Booking a hard house dj to open for a deep house dj for example is bananas.
well this also gets into a whole different rant about how many promoters try to either book as many DJs as they possibly can over time or as many styles of music in one room as they can in an effort to draw more people... which kills consistency... and then wonder why they can't maintain a regular crowd...

[Master Miguel Lush]

that many promoters will book DJs with no respect to their genre or style. DJs can only spin what they have. Booking a hard house dj to open for a deep house dj for example is bananas.
LOL



Last summer when i played at Otakon, the guy that played before me was playing happy hardcore at somehwere around 170bpm....


I bitched at the promoter big time.

There were no headliners, yet as a promoter you should not make those kind of mistakes....

[The Logic Theorist]

disagree with you Matt. Trance jokes aside, its like opening for Paul van Dyk and playing "For An Angel". He still uses that shit in his finales. Lame or not, the point is to open FOR the big dj. I guess it depends, does the dj still play the song in his sets. The best thing to do, and it extends beyond the question of playing his songs, is to research and understand what type of music the headliner plays and play a warmup set below it relatively. Lets not forget what happened to Empath when he opened for Tiesto. Had Empath warmed up to Tiesto in a perfect way, its possible Tiesto would have requested Empath to always open for him when he was in DC. Sorry to call you John but you admitted you tried upstaging him. Playing a DJ's big songs falls under that bucket if he's still playing them. Also, it ruins the clubber's experience many times cause the headliner has no place to go. Opening a set is an art form onto itself.

I should have also added in to my post that if you know the DJ you're opening for is still playing one of his classic tunes then you should obviously avoid playing that one as well.

In other words, I agree with this in addition to what I said above.

[Matt Sanborn]

This is key... and this will likely piss some people off... but I think it's something that most DJs in DC do not grasp...

I have had other DJs ask me why, when opening for other DJs, I did not "bang it out" and suggesting that I "must have been being nice" to the headliners on the night...

no... I was doing my fucking job... not to mention the fact that if you're banging shit out when people are first starting to wander in, they're likely to be a little daunted if it's nothing but hours of hard bangers all night...


Yes and No....I agree with some parts- but "doing my fucking job" is djing how I dj...I dont organize my record bag in any special manner to suit who I am playing with that night. I play how I play- if you book me, you are doing so because expect me to play what you expect me to play- not because I can warm it up nice for a headliner.

last weekend when we opened for Farina- we played from 10-2....thats a pretty long set so Id say a good 1.5 hours were pretty energetic (for deep house guys :wink:)...but then we toned it down the last 30 mins before Farina went on.

not playing a full set of "hard bangers" is just common sense....but fuck if I am going to play any differently just because of the person who plays after me.

[john c]

but u did play differently cause u DID tone it down the last 30 mins ;)

[spiggums]

Yes and No....I agree with some parts- but "doing my fucking job" is djing how I dj...I dont organize my record bag in any special manner to suit who I am playing with that night. I play how I play- if you book me, you are doing so because expect me to play what you expect me to play- not because I can warm it up nice for a headliner.

last weekend when we opened for Farina- we played from 10-2....thats a pretty long set so Id say a good 1.5 hours were pretty energetic (for deep house guys :wink:)...but then we toned it down the last 30 mins before Farina went on.

not playing a full set of "hard bangers" is just common sense....but fuck if I am going to play any differently just because of the person who plays after me.
to be fair... I don't regularly attend deep house nights... and the vibe there is likely to be a bit different... ;)

and honestly Matt... while you may have a different approach, I'm in no way slagging you for it... you're a seasoned DJ and I respect your skills... I have no doubt you make shit work properly...

[Matt Sanborn]

but u did play differently cause u DID tone it down the last 30 mins ;)


yeah but that just makes sense for a set you are recording I think....

[Matt Sanborn]

to be fair... I don't regularly attend deep house nights... and the vibe there is likely to be a bit different... ;)

and honestly Matt... while you may have a different approach, I'm in no way slagging you for it... you're a seasoned DJ and I respect your skills... I have no doubt you make shit work properly...


thanks Ed, I totally hear what you and John are saying tho.

and I do think that the kind of house I play may be a bit different than other genres in this discussion....

[kindofblue272]

LOL



Last summer when i played at Otakon, the guy that played before me was playing happy hardcore at somehwere around 170bpm....


I bitched at the promoter big time.

There were no headliners, yet as a promoter you should not make those kind of mistakes....

lol. otakon is a free for all

[Christine]

I feel that the headliner has first dibs on his/her own tracks. As the opening DJ, I wouldn't play any of the headliner's tracks without asking first -- and unless you're in a situation where you're the regular opening DJ for someone who produces, it shouldn't be that difficult to play a set that doesn't include any of that person's tracks.

[Broken Home]

OK. I've read all your replies and come up with this "best practices" type list:

when you are opening for someone:
1. take out all tracks that they produced or remixed
2. take out all tracks on the label they own
3. check setlists for current tour, and don't play any songs from there. (if possible)

Now I just need to find a headliner to let me open for them :D

[psykofly]

If you ask them and they say yes...then its cool

[bplank]

no. It's tacky.

[NightWatch]

What if you really like the track though? What if it's sincere.

[Skandar]

Wanted to quote these two posts for emphasis as these points seem beyond the grasp of 90% of promoters.


This is key... and this will likely piss some people off... but I think it's something that most DJs in DC do not grasp...

I have had other DJs ask me why, when opening for other DJs, I did not "bang it out" and suggesting that I "must have been being nice" to the headliners on the night...

no... I was doing my fucking job... not to mention the fact that if you're banging shit out when people are first starting to wander in, they're likely to be a little daunted if it's nothing but hours of hard bangers all night...


ya totally. some people say "well if the headliner was all that, he shouldnt be outstaged." People dont realize that the floor gets bored after x number of hours of the same music. If you are playing the same music as the headliner, you are diminishing the impact of the headiner's set. Its worth mentioning though, that many promoters will book DJs with no respect to their genre or style. DJs can only spin what they have. Booking a hard house dj to open for a deep house dj for example is bananas.

[Shawn_E]

Isn't this what Scott did to PVD at the armory way back?

[spiggums]

Isn't this what Scott did to PVD at the armory way back?
i remember someone commenting on this at the time...

and the track in question was NOT a PVD tune... the discussion was related to an anthem of the day that they both played...

the tune in question was Iio's Rapture...

(note: I could be mistaken and there was something else... but I distinctly remember a conversation about Scott and PVD at the Armory that centered on this song being played by both)

[mojojones]

i remember someone commenting on this at the time...

and the track in question was NOT a PVD tune... the discussion was related to an anthem of the day that they both played...

the tune in question was Iio's Rapture...

(note: I could be mistaken and there was something else... but I distinctly remember a conversation about Scott and PVD at the Armory that centered on this song being played by both)


i think it was the song was from PVD current mix CD that he was touring to promote it

don't rememeber what song it was myself, all i remember it was a song from PVD mix CD and not something he produced / remixed

yeah i remember that, it was controversial on DCraves (even though DCraves is still around today, i think it was the pre-Buzzboard era, LOL)

[Shawn_E]

i remember someone commenting on this at the time...

and the track in question was NOT a PVD tune... the discussion was related to an anthem of the day that they both played...

the tune in question was Iio's Rapture...

(note: I could be mistaken and there was something else... but I distinctly remember a conversation about Scott and PVD at the Armory that centered on this song being played by both)

I thought he dropped "for an angel", which i thought was from PVD, I remember dancing and spranging my ankle and saying hey didn't I already hear this. lol. That night is mad fuzzy in mah brain though.

[spiggums]

i think it was the song was from PVD current mix CD that he was touring to promote it

don't rememeber what song it was myself, all i remember it was a song from PVD mix CD and not something he produced / remixed

yeah i remember that, it was controversial on DCraves (even though DCraves is still around today, i think it was the pre-Buzzboard era, LOL)
http://www.discogs.com/release/307212

Rapture was on that... and that was about the time of the incident in question...
so I think that could be the song... in which case, seriously, every time I went out I'd hear that tune... I don't think PVD could really lay claim to that...

[proxxy]

do not do it.

and if you feel that you really need to do it, ASK the headliner first.

but generally, don't.

unless your name is dj proxxy, and you are playing a tune OFF the headliner's mix cd. then it's funny.


haha omg! "evertime i see your face..."

[proxxy]

very good question dan

I would have to say no, even tho I have been guilty of this on occasion. Although a few times I would ask the headliner if it was ok if I dropped such and such and usually they were cool with it.

Another question is, what if you are playing the same room as the headliner opening up the night but not playing right before him. Should you still not play his tunes?


haha. GO BANG! lantern!

I played a sharaz track when i opened for him a couple years back... I asked him first. he said cool... but then in the middle of the track i bumped it up to 45 from 33 and played it as D&B at the break... he lates said that was the coolest thing he had seen anyone do when they played before him....
So hey it can work to your advantage... hehe