salt-water as an energy source

[Mitaic]

local news report video at link
http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/11/can-saltwater-be-burned-as-fuel/


A gentleman from Erie named John Kanzius made a somewhat "shocking" discovery while he was working on a radio-wave generator he had developed for the treatment of cancer. While attempting to desalinate sea water using radio frequencies, he noticed flashes, and within a few days, had saltwater burning in a test-tube as if it were a candle. The discovery spawned interest from the scientific community, mostly concerned with whether or not the water could be used as a fuel, and of course, healthy doses of disbelief. Last week, a Penn State University chemist named Rustum Roy held a demonstration proving that the science is sound, noting that the water doesn't burn, though the radio frequencies weaken the bonds holding together the salt, releasing hydrogen which is ignited when exposed to the RF field. Mr. Kanzius and Dr. Roy say the question now is the efficiency of the energy, and are presenting the technology to the US Department of Defense and Department of Energy to investigate how useful the technology will be. Of the plentiful maybe-fuel (which apparently burns so hot it can melt test-tubes) Dr. Roy says, "This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," and (without recognition of the poetic irony, as far as we can tell), "Seeing it burn gives me chills." Check the TV report after the break to see the water in action.

[SiKniSS]

unfortunately the energy properties probably won't be explored.. the govt. will just turn it into a weapon for the navy so that we may keep our stranglehold on oil...
yes we are losers...

[Kitsune Fugazzi]

It almost sounds like mini fission...lol

[Shawn_E]

:whoa:

[Dr0pAddict]

the energy needed to create the reaction > the energy released from the reaction..


alcohol has the same problem

[uberclkgtr]

"Mr. Kanzius and Dr. Roy say the question now is the efficiency of the energy..."

Which is *the* fundamental question. Does it take more energy to run the radio wave transmitter than you get from burning the salt water? Of course they don't talk about this.

Since it's burning something, you get heat, which you then have to turn into mechanical power, just like in a steam or internal combustion engine. Generally, those types of engines are pretty inefficient.

Cool discovery though. Maybe it will have other applications, such as desalinization.

[sassypance]

It's not efficient source of energy, chemical oceanographers have been working on a saline energy source for years and it's all great in theory, but we've yet to truly discover how to harness its power. This is definitely a step in a positive direction though.

[Kif]

Mr. Kanzius and Dr. Roy say the question now is the efficiency of the energy, and are presenting the technology to the US Department of Defense and Department of Energy to investigate how useful the technology will be.

for those of you stating that it takes more energy to produce than it yields like you have all the facts

[uberclkgtr]

for those of you stating that it takes more energy to produce than it yields like you have all the facts

It would be good if the article/newsclip actually talked about those facts. To run a story about water as an energy source but to neglect this is like running a story about how vitamins might cure cancer but not citing any research.

I'm in the dark as anyone, but as a scientist, of course, skeptical. =]

[Kif]

I'm fine with being skeptical, I am as well...I just get fumed when people post shit up as fact, when, in fact, they don't have all the facts.



FACT!

[uberclkgtr]

One area this could be useful would be in producing hydrogen for fuel cells, or maybe making fuel cells more efficient. Hopefully more research will be done on this.

[Neptune]

thats pretty interesting

[Kif]

One area this could be useful would be in producing hydrogen for fuel cells, or maybe making fuel cells more efficient. Hopefully more research will be done on this.
that was the first thing i thought of as well, since the heat being produced is from burning hydrogen released during the reaction

[Master Miguel Lush]

so, can i charge my cellphone with salt water?

[Kif]

so, can i charge my cellphone with salt water?
:yes:

just toss it right in

[uberclkgtr]

that was the first thing i thought of as well, since the heat being produced is from burning hydrogen released during the reaction

yeah. instead of burning, if one could store it, it might be more efficient that producing H2 via electrolysis. we already know that plants can produce H2 and O2 more efficiently than the electrolysis method, so there's no reason to believe a new industrial method via radio waves shouldn't also be able to do so.

i'm still skeptical that it could be a power *source* though. that would require less energy in than out, and i'm pretty sure breaking chemical bonds doesn't do that if i remember my chemistry right. kinda like how hydrogen fuel cells are not a power *source* - simply an improved, longer-lasting battery or energy storage device that still needs to get its power from burning coal or from the sun via solar panels.

[SCHLiTZ]

yes miguel... skip it across the ocean.



as for fuel cells, the same conservation of energy still applies.
it would be cooler if it knocked the salt out of the water. i think a radio transmitter would be highly more efficient that current desalinisation methods.