why organic is a good thing..

[Jenni XO]

It may not seem like a news flash, but after you read what I have to say, you may consider it one! Do yourself a favor and start eating as much organic stuff as possible.. especially when it comes to meat and dairy.

While driving home from the beach, I'm chatting on the phone to my mom and she enlightens me to a news brief she heard on her talk radio. While doing some investigating, people are finding out the following:

1.) Kill animals [the animals that are slaughtered for consumption] are being pumped up full of growth hormones, to make them bigger and meatier. This isn't supposed to happen, but it is.. Some people consider these hormones to be the reason why kids are developing physically faster these days, than before - this is NOT a good thing. [And yes, I realize this is something a good percentage of us already know..]

2.) The kill animals are being fed ground up road kill, cats & dogs that have been put to sleep, and cows that have been killed due to having MAD COW DISEASE. Yes, the cows, chickens, and pigs you are eating are being fed ROTTEN, DISEASE RIDDEN, CHEMICAL FILLED dead animals! Sounds yummy, right? When I heard this, just after having eaten a breakfast burrito, I almost threw up.

Matti and I have decided to go back to our Pescatarian diet [veggies & fish - which I had been for years, before having kids.. going right back to it!]. But if you're going to keep eating meat, seriously consider eating organic. It may be more pricey, but it's ten times better for you. And think of it this way, it'll cut the cost of going out to eat so much, because there's no such thing as organic is restaurants.

When it comes to eggs, get eggs from free ranging chickens. These chickens are not kept caged or fed unnatural stuff.

As far as dairy goes, it is more pricey, but buy organic milk, cheese, etc. If anything, the prices will encourage you to eat less!

At least consider how much healthier you'll be, before blowing all I've just written off. :idea:


I had to share what I heard.. it's been disturbing to even think about it really.

[maynard]

I have recently gone the organic route. It's amazing, I really do feel healthier, esp. with all fast food cut out from my diet.

No vegetarianism for me thx, there is no way I could go without steak or bacon.

Although the whole 4.49 for a half-gallon of organic milk compared to 3.99/gallon for non-organic milk is fucking bullshit.

[uberclkgtr]

an article from last week. bottom line, just because it says organic on it, does not mean it's made with sustainable resources or is good for the environment.


Has Big Business Turned Organics Into "Yuppy Chow"?
By Michael Valpy
The Globe and Mail

Wednesday 30 May 2007

Saskatoon - Organic food is being taken over by big business, marketed as "yuppy chow" for the privileged, and increasingly packaged with as little concern for the environment as conventional food production, says a York University academic researcher.

In a paper to be presented on Friday at Canada's largest gathering of social sciences scholars, Irena Knezevic says that most of the major organic brands on the North American market are now owned by large corporations such as ConAgra, Cargill, Kraft, Coca Cola and Pepsi.

She says their products - along with those sold by retail giants such as Loblaws and Wal-Mart - are turning organic agriculture into product brands that are becoming "a marketing tool more so than an assurance of quality, let alone an assurance of a fair and sustainable production process."

Officials from Loblaws and Wal-Mart were unavailable for comment last night.

This trend, says Ms. Knezevic, is driven by consumer demand, with the food industry's eager willingness to jump on the bandwagon and make organic consumption efficient and slightly less expensive by mass-producing - creating only a slightly "greener" version of the dominant industrial food system but separating organic agriculture from its central concepts.

She says consumers are demonstrating a phenomenal enthusiasm for organic products - the Canadian organic industry is growing by 15 to 20 per cent annually - and a readiness to pay premium prices for the products.

But what research shows, she says, is that organic products are becoming what she describes as a food fetish associated with individual health and body image - status food linked to high disposable income and the leisure time to shop - but ignoring "the heart of organic agriculture."

"Organic agriculture is by definition intertwined with environmentalism, resistance to corporate globalization and the 'back to the land' movement," she says.

Organic food is conventionally defined as free of chemical inputs - pesticides and artificial fertilizers - and genetically modified organisms, produced with sensitivity to the land, the crops, the animals and the surrounding ecosystems, and providing a fair economic return to small growers who produce food as an alternative to mass commodity production.

It is the environmental and social-justice issues that Ms. Knezevic says are being ignored by consumers and government regulators.

"Most of the organic food supply in Canada travels to consumers from California and includes convenience foods like individual-sized and single-serving granola bars. Transportation and packaging involved result in environmental consequences comparable to those of conventional food production."

In her paper, she quotes George Siemon, the founder of the largest North American co-operative organic producer, California's Organic Valley - a non-corporate grower - as wryly telling a recent conference: "We expect any day now that our consumers will ask for organic Twinkies. Individually wrapped, of course."

Ms. Knezevic says the Canadian federal government's proposed national labelling for organic foods will tell consumers little about how organic food is produced - little about who produced it or the farmers' environmental and sustainable stewardship of the land, whether the food was locally produced or what economic return farmers got for their labour.

The proposed labelling, she says, will only continue to distance consumers from their food and are mainly aimed at encouraging both mass production and exports into a globally harmonized market.

Indeed, she says, the regulations will encourage corporations to take over more and more of organic agriculture because government subsidies favour large producers over small ones.

Achim Mohssen-Beyk, an organic farmer from Picton, Ont., said that big companies may meet the basic standards for organic certification in Canada, but the consumer will never know about the environmental or social footprints they leave.

"All the food mileage and mass production, the organic certification doesn't talk about that. You can have certified organic coming from China and people being exploited there and nobody's talking about that," said Mr. Mohssen-Beyk, who is also a regional spokesman for the Canadian Organic Growers. He said small, local farmers can't compete with the price-point advantages of big companies, even though they maintain the highest of standards.

"We are losing farms, we are losing farmland, we are losing rural economies because everything is being imported."

Ms. Knezevic quotes a National Farmers Union study that says small-farm income in Canada is now at the lowest point since the Depression.

Ms. Knezevic is a doctoral candidate in the joint York-Ryerson Universities communication and culture program. Earlier this year, she was given a major teaching award by York and cited for her research skills and commitment to the mentoring and academic success of her students.

She will present her research to the annual Congress of the Humanities and Social Sciences being held this week at the University of Saskatchewan. There are 5,500 scholars attending.

She writes in her paper: "Organic foods have less and less to do with the ethics of environmentalism, anti-globalization and social justice, indeed less to do with organic agriculture as a concept, but more and more with hip consumerism, cultural and economic capital and the moral pedestals of those who have the luxury to make such purchasing choices."

What is being created, she says, is "a system in which organic products are more and more removed from the actual problems with food production and incorporated into the dominant agricultural model. The core problems of the global food system, mainly distancing, remain unaddressed."

[uberclkgtr]

just about every company that manufactures products is trying to portray itself as "green" these days. consumers are aware that they are causing environmental damage and want to be careful in the products they buy and use. marketing droids at companies are aware of this. this instance at home depot is particularly funny, depressing.


At Home Depot, How Green Is That Chainsaw?
By Clifford Krauss
The New York Times

Monday 25 June 2007

Atlanta - Home Depot sent a note a few months ago to the companies that supply the 176,000 products it sells, inviting them to make a pitch to have their products included in its new Eco Options marketing campaign.

More than 60,000 products - far more than obvious candidates like organic gardening products and high-efficiency lightbulbs - suddenly developed environmental star power.

Plastic-handled paint brushes were touted as nature-friendly because they were not made of wood. Wood-handled paint brushes were promoted as better for the planet because they were not made of plastic.

An electric chainsaw? Green, because it was not gas-powered. A bug zapper? Ditto, because it was not a poisonous spray. Manufacturers of paint thinners, electrical screwdrivers and interior overhead lights claimed similar bragging rights simply because their plastic or cardboard packaging was recyclable.

"In somebody's mind, the products they were selling us were environmentally friendly," said Ron Jarvis, a Home Depot senior vice president who oversees the Eco Options program.

But not in his mind.

"Most of what you see today in the green movement is voodoo marketing," he added. "If they say their product makes the sky bluer and the grass greener, that's just not good enough."

By the standards of Mr. Jarvis - who fertilizes his own home garden with a liquefied worm waste product packaged in recycled soda bottles and fills his swimming pool with salt water to avoid putting chlorine into the environment - only 2,500 of the products made the cut.

Even at that number, some environmentalists say that Home Depot is being too inclusive. In the process, they say, it is engaging in its own kind of overstated marketing, posing as green even as it continues to sell powerful pesticides and polluting lawnmowers.

Green, after all, has become the new "new and improved," a label so widely used that many environmental groups, while lauding the heightened interest of consumers, now dismiss many of the efforts as greenwash.

"Everybody is in a mad scramble to say how green they are," said Jim O'Donnell, manager of the Sierra Club Stock Fund, which handles $50 million in a portfolio of companies it considers environmentally friendly. He added that he was hopeful the product greening would become more meaningful over time.

One reason for the scramble is that there are few verifiable or certified standards to substantiate claims. Crest has introduced a toothpaste containing green tea extract and natural mint, sold under the "Nature's Expressions" label, even though it contains artificial ingredients like most toothpastes. Raid sells a wasp and hornet killer in a green can marked "Green Options" with "Natural Clove Scent."

"You almost have to be a scientist with a lab to decipher the dizzying array of claims," said Robyn Griggs Lawrence, editor in chief for Natural Home magazine. "It's hard to get information on what makes a product green."

Few people know that better than Mr. Jarvis of Home Depot, the nation's second-largest retailer behind Wal-Mart.

The products he has accepted for the Eco Options promotion include solar-powered landscape lighting, biodegradable peat pots and paints that discharge fewer pollutants.

But he has often gone back to suppliers and independent testers for clarification and new testing on products. Sometimes he requests product improvements, since Home Depot ultimately wants to sell about 6,000 products under the Eco Options program. (The suppliers have an incentive to meet his requests: sales of products in the Eco Options program have gone up an average of about 10 percent since the program began in April.)

Home Depot executives acknowledge that they are navigating largely uncharted waters because the government and private-company certifications that do exist on environmental impact tend to be narrowly focused.

It took weeks, for instance, to choose among a multitude of paint toxicity standards that local governments have set around the country. (Home Depot said it chose the strictest standard, set in Southern California.)

For now, most Eco Options products rely on independent certifications like Energy Star, which measure energy efficiency and is run by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Energy.

Even though Energy Star is a widely accepted barometer for how much electricity a refrigerator or washing machine uses, it does not measure other factors, like how much energy was used to make the appliance in the first place or whether the manufacturer used recycled materials and encouraged its product to be recycled at the end of its life.

Home Depot is working with Scientific Certification Systems, a private company based in Emeryville, Calif., that audits and certifies company claims, to develop new broad-based standards. They will grade a product based on its environmental record over its entire life cycle - including the sustainability of its production process, its efficiency and longevity and how it can be recycled when it is no longer useful.

But until some kind of standard can be worked out, Mr. Jarvis and his team are forced to work their way through the thicket of claims.

They are currently considering a rug that is made out of corn fiber instead of nylon, one that the manufacturer is heralding as a natural, earth-friendly product. Corn is natural, Mr. Jarvis acknowledged, but he said he was concerned about the buildup of phosphates in the Gulf of Mexico coming off the Mississippi River from corn farming, as well as the fuel it takes to run the tractors in corn fields and to transport the corn.

"When you look at the entire life cycle, nylon could have less of an environmental impact," he said.

Teimeiko Fletcher, an environmental marketing manager at Home Depot, walked into Mr. Jarvis's office on a recent day with a thick folder of products that manufacturers wanted to be included in the Eco Options program.

Mr. Jarvis liked a dimmer made by Lutron that promised 5 percent energy savings, but asked that the Environmental Protection Agency be consulted for verification. He was impressed by a claim by E-3 that a spark plug for lawn and garden products would lower carbon dioxide emissions by 7 percent, but he asked Ms. Fletcher to find out if other spark plugs on the market could do better.

One manufacturer said its asphalt roofing was environmentally friendly because it could be placed over existing roofing, thereby limiting overloading of landfills.

Mr. Jarvis said he was not impressed, even though Home Depot already sells the product. "Wood shingles would be better, as long as it comes from sustainable forestry," he noted.

Skeptics say Home Depot is also attempting to give itself a green patina, endorsing products that may not be all they are cracked up to be while continuing to sell lawnmowers, toxic pesticides and inefficient light bulbs.

Urvashi Rangan, a senior environmental health scientist at Consumer Reports, complained of one store where Eco Options signs were placed haphazardly around toxic bee and hornet insecticides.

"If they really wanted to promote sustainability, they would discontinue their products with the least green attributes," said Garvin Jabusch, a partner at Green Alfa Advisors, which directs investors on how to invest in a sustainable economy. "Manufacturers would stop making them on the spot."

Mr. Jarvis says many manufacturers have expressed a willingness to work with Home Depot to improve their products to earn the Eco Options label. "The manufacturers are seeing the green ship leave the port," he said "and they don't want to be left on the dock."

[Shawn_E]

organic: the new fad

[badkitty3804]

If you're going to go organic, be really aware about the brands and products that you're working with. Not all things are more or less good for you and/or the environment just because they're considered organic, a lot of companies are just taking advantage of the fad.

As far as organic goes, I tend to lean towards only going that way with dairy, veggies (farmers market preferred) and meats.

[maynard]

organic: the new fad

It's more the fact that my dad had colorectal cancer when he was 28... I'm just trying to take better care of myself. I've had atrocious eating habits my whole life to this point. :elad:

[housecat]

After hearing about this fish from China shit I may actually go more towards the organic route with my meats. I already cut out fast foods a while ago. I should go more organic w/fruits and veggies too. I just wish it was more expensive to do so.

[uberclkgtr]

i buy organic veggies at the grocery story because they taste better. by far.

i also buy organic milk and chicken because i don't want to eat/drink food that's been pumped full of hormones in order to grow twice as fast as naturally, or give twice as much milk as naturally.

and that's why some organic foods such as milk are more expensive, because industrial production of them manipulates the life cycles of the animals involved.

organic potato chips though (in a plastic bag)? organic individually wrapped granola bars? :rolleyes: as emily said, one needs to use common sense when shopping organic.

[LovinBuzz]

You should read Michael Pollan -The omnivore’s dilemma
He basically goes into how " Organic" foods that we buy arent much different from the "non organic" ones.
Personally, I could care less, I have been eating non organic food forever and Im ok.
I mean really could you tell the difference in a blind taste test? Probably not.

[Shawn_E]

It's more the fact that my dad had colorectal cancer when he was 28... I'm just trying to take better care of myself. I've had atrocious eating habits my whole life to this point. :elad:


Right, but that doesn't really directly tie into what I was stating, you changing your eating habits is :bravo: but doesn't necessarily have to do with organic, even though that is what you are eating.

[maynard]

I mean really could you tell the difference in a blind taste test?

Absolutely. Especially with veggies as James has said. I got some bell peppers from Whole Foods recently that were so juicy they hardly required any effort to cut. Delicious.

[LovinBuzz]

Absolutely. Especially with veggies as James has said. I got some bell peppers from Whole Foods recently that were so juicy they hardly required any effort to cut. Delicious.

I kind of know what you mean. Veggies that come from my parents garden are delicious. I guess Im just skeptical of the big chains like whole foods.

[Shawn_E]

You should read Michael Pollan -The omnivore’s dilemma
He basically goes into how " Organic" foods that we buy arent much different from the "non organic" ones.
Personally, I could care less, I have been eating non organic food forever and Im ok.
I mean really could you tell the difference in a blind taste test? Probably not.


:werd:

[zartan]

whole foods is a good place to buy b/c they have higher standards than the USDA for organics.

[Raverjimbob]

We went organic due to quality more then health reasons. The majority of people, especially those growing up in urban areas, do not even know what corn, green beans, or a tomato is supposed to taste like. They are conditioned to think the stuff you get at the grocery store is what produce is supposed to taste like. I feel for those people, they don't even know what they are missing.

But just cause it's organic from a grocery store, does not mean it's good. All produce sold in large stores is crap, it's high yielding varieties that are devoid of taste. It's stuff that's picked before ripe so will never develop into what it could. They have concerns like shelf life to think about and the trade off is a horrible tasting product.

We are going to start using a local farmer for all of our meats in the near future as he produces a superior product in a clean and healthy way. This guy is 25 minutes outside of Roanoke, and gladly sells in bulk. I have enough freezer room in my home to store in bulk and will be buying chicken, pork, beef, and rabbits once every few months instead of running to the grocery store.

Most our vegis are covered over the summer here at home in our organic garden. We do buy vegis in the winter as it is now, but hope to expand our garden next year and can and store our own vegis.

In a few years we hope to raise our own chickens and eggs as well. Becoming self sufficient is the wisest thing we can do at this moment in time, as the nation is headed for bad times like back in the 30's.

[method]

sustainable and repsonsible agriculture is a good thing, but just because something sounds 'icky' doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or unnatural. many animals' natural diet includes carrion and other waste matter; fish, crustaceans and mollusks in particular. pigs will eat anything (including feces).

eating fewer preservatives is good, but organic is overhyped imo. it's a good thing, but it's popularity is driven mostly by kneejerk and uninformed reactions. i'm not saying overuse of pesticides or use of growth hormones is good by any means, but many of the facts bandied in support of the organic movement are just intended to provoke an visceral response rather than to inform.

i buy fresh, whole, and local ingredients to cook with, and the amount of prepackaged goods at my house is pretty much limited to dried pasta, kashi cereal and potato chips. i think if you just eat responsibly, and not for convenience, you'll see most if not all of the difference you'll see with an all-organic diet.

[Jenni XO]

I tried to make it clear when I wrote what I did, that I'm talking meats, dairy, and fruits & veggies. I'm not talking about doing your whole grocery trip as organic. That would be silly and totally expensive.


And the taste of organic fruits and veggies, against what you normally buy, is a HUGE difference. Last night I made a veggie stir fry with organic mushroom, sugar snap peas, carrots, and broccoli, and the difference was incredible. The veggies tasted soooo good and so fresh.

[Jenni XO]

sustainable and repsonsible agriculture is a good thing, but just because something sounds 'icky' doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or unnatural. many animals' natural diet includes carrion and other waste matter; fish, crustaceans and mollusks in particular. pigs will eat anything (including feces).




This is true.. but feeding these animals chopped up diseased animals, and animals that have been put down with chemicals is NOT natural.

[method]

i buy all-natural hormone-fed veg-fed beef and chicken myself; i'm not trying to argue against eating better food - it's just that many animals we eat normally eat the rotten carcasses of other animals. animals are really pretty fucking nasty in general.

personally, i'm most concerned about additives like nitrates and other preservatives that wreak havoc on your liver.

[Kitsune Fugazzi]

sustainable and repsonsible agriculture is a good thing, but just because something sounds 'icky' doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or unnatural. many animals' natural diet includes carrion and other waste matter; fish, crustaceans and mollusks in particular. pigs will eat anything (including feces).

This isn't entirely accurate though Matt.

Pigs "will" eat anything, but left to their own devices they have a specific diet. The only reason pigs are eating things like feces is because of the conditions they're kept in. also, as for the carrion and waste matter, that is also true, but the same rules applied, if left to it's natural environment it "could" be a part of it's diet, but it is not likely to be a part of it's diet and that makes a huge different.

[Kif]

whole foods is a good place to buy b/c they have higher standards than the USDA for organics.
and that's the issue i have...it is quite easy to mark a product as "organic". There def needs to be some overhaul done and some sort of guidelines set across the board for a company to call it's product organic...which there currently isn't.

[method]

This isn't entirely accurate though Matt.

Pigs "will" eat anything, but left to their own devices they have a specific diet. The only reason pigs are eating things like feces is because of the conditions they're kept in. also, as for the carrion and waste matter, that is also true, but the same rules applied, if left to it's natural environment it "could" be a part of it's diet, but it is not likely to be a part of it's diet and that makes a huge different.

the pig thing primarily is a matter of environment, yes - the chances of them defecating on their food in the wild is pretty slim. i don't think it would deter them much though.

i totally stand by my comments about seafood. i'm not saying it's all they eat (though many crustacean species are definitely scavangers), but it's normal for them to scavenge.

[maynard]

and that's the issue i have...it is quite easy to mark a product as "organic". There def needs to be some overhaul done and some sort of guidelines set across the board for a company to call it's product organic...which there currently isn't.

Having worked there, I can tell you that WFM has such guidelines. The USDA really needs to play catch-up.

[Kitsune Fugazzi]

the pig thing primarily is a matter of environment, yes - the chances of them defecating on their food in the wild is pretty slim. i don't think it would deter them much though.

I cannot think of any animal species I've encountered in my experience that will willingly eat it's own feces given a choice...particularly because it is not evolutionarily smart of be doing so considering the disease vectors at work there.

i totally stand by my comments about seafood.

Well...again that's a matter of luck. Yes, mollusks and crustaceans are filter feeders, but that also doesn't mean that they fact that they can't change their location means that them filter feeding toxins, pollutants, and feces is a good thing.

As for fish, well that depends on the species and the environment...

[method]

it's an interesting, but irrelevant point, that beavers have 2 kinds of poop - one for eatin' and one for wastin'.

[Kitsune Fugazzi]

it's an interesting, but irrelevant point, that beavers have 2 kinds of poop - one for eatin' and one for wastin'.

MULTIPOOP!

[method]

Well...again that's a matter of luck. Yes, mollusks and crustaceans are filter feeders, but that also doesn't mean that they fact that they can't change their location means that them filter feeding toxins, pollutants, and feces is a good thing.

and not saying that it is at all. i am however, saying that it's natural and normal for fish and crustaceans to feed on detritus.

[Kitsune Fugazzi]

and not saying that it is at all. i am however, saying that it's natural and normal for fish and crustaceans to feed on detritus.

of course, but what is not natural is for the detritus to basically be poisonous...=)

[method]

definitely not; pollution is another topic all together. i'm just pointing out that it's anthropomorphic to decry animals eating detritus.

[Kif]

Having worked there, I can tell you that WFM has such guidelines. The USDA really needs to play catch-up.
right on, though i wasn't aware that you were researching products and making purchases for them :neener:

my comment was directed toward the USDA and the lack of guidelines for manufactures of products as a whole

[Kitsune Fugazzi]

definitely not; pollution is another topic all together. i'm just pointing out that it's anthropomorphic to decry animals eating detritus.

Well...it isn't a matter of pollution solely, it's a matter that many of them are being forced to eat it when it isn't a "regular" part of their diet and the fact that it isn't "natural" detritus that they're injesting.

And even further, it's more a commentary on the conditions the animals are kept in, which is what made me vegetarian in the first place...

[Jenni XO]

Having worked there, I can tell you that WFM has such guidelines. The USDA really needs to play catch-up.


A bit off topic, but how did you like working for them?

We're moving back up to NoVA at the end of this month, and I was thinking of getting a job there in the mornings.. since Matti's work wouldn't start until 1:30 in the afternoon..

[maynard]

A bit off topic, but how did you like working for them?

We're moving back up to NoVA at the end of this month, and I was thinking of getting a job there in the mornings.. since Matti's work wouldn't start until 1:30 in the afternoon..

Other than the fact that I had to quit because my boss was easily the biggest prick of anyone who's ever been my boss, great.

The staff was incredibly diverse. Lots of people from around the world with interesting stories to tell. Getting organic food at a considerable discount was a major perk.

I worked at the one in Georgetown.

[Bioteknik]

i buy organic veggies at the grocery story because they taste better. by far.

i also buy organic milk and chicken because i don't want to eat/drink food that's been pumped full of hormones in order to grow twice as fast as naturally, or give twice as much milk as naturally.

and that's why some organic foods such as milk are more expensive, because industrial production of them manipulates the life cycles of the animals involved.

organic potato chips though (in a plastic bag)? organic individually wrapped granola bars? :rolleyes: as emily said, one needs to use common sense when shopping organic.

well when you're buying organic, you should probably make the effort to actually prepare your own food..

[Dustin]

It may not seem like a news flash, but after you read what I have to say, you may consider it one! Do yourself a favor and start eating as much organic stuff as possible.. especially when it comes to meat and dairy.

While driving home from the beach, I'm chatting on the phone to my mom and she enlightens me to a news brief she heard on her talk radio. While doing some investigating, people are finding out the following:

1.) Kill animals [the animals that are slaughtered for consumption] are being pumped up full of growth hormones, to make them bigger and meatier. This isn't supposed to happen, but it is.. Some people consider these hormones to be the reason why kids are developing physically faster these days, than before - this is NOT a good thing. [And yes, I realize this is something a good percentage of us already know..]

2.) The kill animals are being fed ground up road kill, cats & dogs that have been put to sleep, and cows that have been killed due to having MAD COW DISEASE. Yes, the cows, chickens, and pigs you are eating are being fed ROTTEN, DISEASE RIDDEN, CHEMICAL FILLED dead animals! Sounds yummy, right? When I heard this, just after having eaten a breakfast burrito, I almost threw up.

Matti and I have decided to go back to our Pescatarian diet [veggies & fish - which I had been for years, before having kids.. going right back to it!]. But if you're going to keep eating meat, seriously consider eating organic. It may be more pricey, but it's ten times better for you. And think of it this way, it'll cut the cost of going out to eat so much, because there's no such thing as organic is restaurants.

When it comes to eggs, get eggs from free ranging chickens. These chickens are not kept caged or fed unnatural stuff.

As far as dairy goes, it is more pricey, but buy organic milk, cheese, etc. If anything, the prices will encourage you to eat less!

At least consider how much healthier you'll be, before blowing all I've just written off. :idea:


I had to share what I heard.. it's been disturbing to even think about it really.

I don't eat meat or consume a variety of animal products, for all the reasons you listed above. Modern practices in acquiring meat, milk, and eggs are brutal and disgusting (though I usually like it brutal). Ever since I began waffling on Vegetarian/Veganism, I've always encouraged people to eat more meat, for me. I'm not interested in animal liberation or converting others to vegetarianism at this point - I'd rather let people gobble up the terrible stuff and suffer the health consequences.

If you're looking to shop organic and all natural, you should check out Whole Foods Market. It's expensive, though you're paying for quality. I'm unable to afford most of what I'd like to eat, I live with my father who's a staunch meat eater. I'd rather have candy as a meal then the said types of meat and animal products, which I've done. I really wish I could always be eating fresh, organic food though. Nothing beats that.

You should read Michael Pollan -The omnivore’s dilemma
He basically goes into how " Organic" foods that we buy arent much different from the "non organic" ones.
Personally, I could care less, I have been eating non organic food forever and Im ok.
I mean really could you tell the difference in a blind taste test? Probably not.

Organic is definitely becoming a trendy term and being used very loosely by various companies. I'd say it's important to be informed about your nutrition and food in general. Who cars if the oats in your granola bar are organic? Aim for something serious like cow's milk, which is typically pumped full of chemicals. Organic foods are definitely different from non-organic ones, it just depends what food you're dealing with.

[Bioteknik]

This is true.. but feeding these animals chopped up diseased animals, and animals that have been put down with chemicals is NOT natural.

while it's true that in England mad cow spread through feeding the other animals diseased animals, but there are federal standards making that illegal these days.

[Shawn_E]

http://www.caption-this.com/wheres%20the%20beef.jpg

[Bioteknik]

I cannot think of any animal species I've encountered in my experience that will willingly eat it's own feces given a choice...particularly because it is not evolutionarily smart of be doing so considering the disease vectors at work there.



Well...again that's a matter of luck. Yes, mollusks and crustaceans are filter feeders, but that also doesn't mean that they fact that they can't change their location means that them filter feeding toxins, pollutants, and feces is a good thing.

As for fish, well that depends on the species and the environment...

you ever owned a dog? haha not that you'd want to eat one but dogs eat their own crap, other dogs crap, cat treats in the litter box...

[Shawn_E]

you ever owned a dog? haha not that you'd want to eat one but dogs eat their own crap, other dogs crap, cat treats in the litter box...


Yeah but dogs got personality, and personality goes a long way

[Bioteknik]

Yeah but dogs got personality, and personality goes a long way

ha.. Vincent did bring that up in that argument didn't he?

[Kitsune Fugazzi]

you ever owned a dog? haha not that you'd want to eat one but dogs eat their own crap, other dogs crap, cat treats in the litter box...

Again I would argue how often if left in the wild would they be hanging around their own crap to be inclined to eat it?

[Kif]

you ever owned a dog? haha not that you'd want to eat one but dogs eat their own crap, other dogs crap, cat treats in the litter box...

My dog does nothing of the sort...then again, my dog is well behaved in ways most dogs are not. She generally only eats what I give her to eat, and sometimes grass.

edit: though when I lived with Kristen, she would eat the cats food if left out in the bowl

[method]

here's what i don't get:

my dog will conscientiously find a discrete place away from the beaten path if she has to go in public

but will eat clumps of litter and pieces of shit from the litter box.


:FUBAR:

[Kif]

my sister had a dog that would go through my cats litter box when I was growing up...then the sick bitch would let the damn thing lick her face stating that the dogs mouth was cleaner than mine :afterbuzz:

my dog will sniff at other excriment on the ground, but never once has she even come close to trying to put it in her mouth.

organic food to dog shit in < 50 posts :woot:

[Chrississippi]

here's what i don't get:

my dog will conscientiously find a discrete place away from the beaten path if she has to go in public

but will eat clumps of litter and pieces of shit from the litter box.


:FUBAR:


Is it your dog's litterbox or your cat's? Dogs love cat food because of the high fat content and your dog may not care if it's "processed" cat food, (i.e., cat food combined with fecal matter).

[GiveMeFunkyBeats]

you ever owned a dog? haha not that you'd want to eat one but dogs eat their own crap, other dogs crap, cat treats in the litter box...



my dog has never attempted to eat her own poop, or other dog's poops...she sniffs at it tho sometimes...sometimes when she farts she gets startled by the noise and sniffs around her butt to see where it came from :afterbuzz:

omg i loves my doggie :affection:

[Kif]

my dog has never attempted to eat her own poop, or other dog's poops...she sniffs at it tho sometimes...sometimes when she farts she gets startled by the noise and sniffs around her butt to see where it came from :afterbuzz:

omg i loves my doggie :affection:
lol...my dog does the same thing

[method]

Is it your dog's litterbox or your cat's? Dogs love cat food because of the high fat content and your dog may not care if it's "processed" cat food, (i.e., cat food combined with fecal matter).

yeah i know this - but i don't think that's the case. if there was much fat in it...it would be well...

umm...read up on alli.

[rocketgirl]

one thing i was recently reading about organic fruits & veggies --
organic farms are butted up against non organic farms (geographically).

SO...when farms spray their pesticides and the wind is blowing, the organic farms get dusted too. even if stuff is organic it still may be tainted and needs a good washing!!

[imabagel]

fast food FTW!!!

hehe. just kidding.

[BuzzCat]

Trader Joe's has more reasonably priced organic / hormone free / free range meat. Not as wide a selection, but not as expensive as whole foods.

I can totally feel the difference since Ben & I switched to organic last month. Food seems to be tasting better too, some how.

[bboyneko]

http://jehovahswitnessonline.com/images/organic_food.jpg

[method]

well, whatever that guy's on, i clearly want some.

[bubblzdc]

there are a few things that i buy that are organic. im not totally sold on eating everything organic.

my main organic purchase is milk. i love organic milk. i think it tastes better and it also lasts longer.

[imabagel]

SOY MILK FTW!

oh wait. thats totally different than organic.


my bad..

[housecat]

HA. I was going to say I prefer soy milk and it DOES last longer when unopened. Once opened you're supposed to polish it off in 2 weeks but I go over that a bit.

[Bioteknik]

one thing i was recently reading about organic fruits & veggies --
organic farms are butted up against non organic farms (geographically).

SO...when farms spray their pesticides and the wind is blowing, the organic farms get dusted too. even if stuff is organic it still may be tainted and needs a good washing!!

well that and you'd probably want to get the "organic" fertilizer off of it as well. haha

[Jenni XO]

SOY MILK FTW!

oh wait. thats totally different than organic.


my bad..


My mom had to go to some big retiring seminar for her job [she's a contractor for the air force], and one day was spent with a nutritionist..

My mom brought up soy milk, because she had been drinking it. The nutritionist advised her to stop drinking it, because it's loaded up with sugar and is actually less healthy. She was told to drink organic milk tho. :elad:

[Kif]

soy milk is crap, only drink it if you're a hard pressed vegan or horribly lactose intollerant

[DJ Coalescence]

[QUOTE=maynard]I have recently gone the organic route. It's amazing, I really do feel healthier, esp. with all fast food cut out from my diet.
QUOTE]

I agree 100%. I switched to a mostly organic diet 3 years ago and dropped about 70lbs. This is not to say I eat anything I want that is organic. I just eat appropriate amounts of healthy foods.

[sassypance]

I just had to write a paper about genetically modified organisms making their way into organic crops. Neither (organic vs. non-organic) is more safe to eat than the other at this point.

[method]

a common factor between the two kinds of agriculture doesn't impact the differences between them; that's like saying 1+1 = 2+1. 1 and 2 are still different even if you add 1 to both of them...

[sassypance]

Organic crop owners are getting their certifications revoked left and right is all I'm saying, it's not just a matter of time, it's already to the point where the number one thing most people go organic because of, is now in the organic crops.

[method]

that's true; that's not to say that they're in all organic crops though. those that do not abut GMO farms will still retain the same properties obviously. you're right though that GMO spread is more-or-less uncontrollable and could be quite a serious problem if the organism in question has an strong impact on the surrounding environment.

[sassypance]

The GMO crops are spreading naturally and evolving like other plants would, carrying pollen downwind to organic fields and then reproducing the GMO plant, contaminating the organic plant forever. It only takes a few generations for the GMOs to take complete genetic dominance over non-GMO crops. Non-natural life is carrying on with the evolutionary process as natural life would and these agbiotech companies could care less about controlling the contamination.

[method]

yes. what i mean is if an organic farm wants to stay that way, they need to be rather far away from the nearest GMO farm growing the same crop(s).

[sassypance]

Yeah they've tracked the migration of GMO pollen to other fields 40 miles away.

You should read the article I did, it's pretty interesting. It's by Claire Hope Cummings and it's called Trespass and it was published in World Watch Magazine.

[method]

yep. i'm not surprised. i've read quite a few articles myself and also seen many papers presented on the subject (both pro and con).

it's definitely one of those genies you can't put back in the bottle. i don't think there's any reason to reject GMO for the sake of it being GMO, but i believe that their effects on their surrounding environment are not tested nearly enough given how unpredictable those effects can be.

[sassypance]

What's fucked is that the government is so closely tied to the agbiotech companies that they're shielding the public from the research. No one is taking responsibility for what's happening either. Companies are just engineering solutions that build resistances and profiting.

[method]

the urge to rush them market is a huge mistake. it's a tough call though whether they're ultimately a good thing or not. i am personally ethically opposed to spraying poison in general - i don't use pesticides, bug sprays, or foggers or the like. engineering bug-resistant plants could be great, if (and that's a big if) it could be done well, such that the plants could not confer those genes to other species (as has been reported).

as for making things more nutritious, like rice that manufactures carotene, i don't really see the harm.

[sassypance]

There have been some advances but the costs are greatly outweighing the benefits.

[jrob]

i don't drink regular milk, I refuse. I have never liked the taste. However, I will drink the SHIT outta some organic milk.

we have a new famer's market at the end of my street (First and R, NW for locals--COME!!!) and they selll the most amazing organic meat and produce. it's all so fucking good. you can toatally tell by taste that its different. not to mention the flowers that i buy there last a week or more. i am sold on the organic! :)

[psion's gate]

I don't agree that buying organic is more expensive. The costs are distributed differently. You may pay more for your milk, but pay less for your produce at a farmers market. Not to mention the difference in price, if there is one, is NOT considerable.

Personally I shop at whole foods for just about everything I eat at home, because their food is fresh, and good quality. Their products have a large price range (low to high), so I can prioritize. Their meats, fish, and cheese are incredible. The home made chorizo is awesome and only 5 bucks a pound. They have whole grains in bulk, which is a great way to buy what you need.

Everyone should attempt to do as much shopping as possible at farmers markets, since those are local farmers, and obviously since they allocate the time and personnel to manage a booth weekly, they are not a massive wholesaler.

[GiveMeFunkyBeats]

mmm i have an organically grown nectarine sitting next to me from trader joe's

im going to eat it on my drive home


its going to be delicious

[zartan]

we have a new famer's market at the end of my street (First and R, NW for locals--COME!!!) and they selll the most amazing organic meat and produce

YES! I'm there every weekend! Love Big Bear's iced cappucinos too.

oh and as far as the cost of organics, the cost of nonorganic food is hidden from you thanks to big government and its subsidies / regulations.

[psion's gate]

YES! I'm there every weekend! Love Big Bear's iced cappucinos too.

oh and as far as the cost of organics, the cost of nonorganic food is hidden from you thanks to big government and its subsidies / regulations.

ah yes...same as gasoline. In fact, make sure to write off your taxes as much mileage as possible to make up for the fact that you are double taxed (income tax, gasoline tax). I have personally recorded over 5000 miles of non-reimbursed mileage this year so far. That equals 2400 dollars in deductions. It's only August! Take that gov.

[method]

wait what's this about writing off gas now? i'm itemizing my deductions so i definitely want to take advantage of this - haven't heard of it before.

[Jenni XO]

I plan on hitting up the farmer's market in Fairfax whenever possible once we get moved. :yes:

[Bioteknik]

wait what's this about writing off gas now? i'm itemizing my deductions so i definitely want to take advantage of this - haven't heard of it before.

I believe he writes it off as a business expense.

[zartan]

and driving to and from work is specifically not deductible.

[method]

right - it has to be over 50 miles each way or something?

[LilLemur416]

right on, though i wasn't aware that you were researching products and making purchases for them :neener:

my comment was directed toward the USDA and the lack of guidelines for manufactures of products as a whole

USDA has a 554 page Federal Register Notice announcing a final rule establishing the National Organic Program (65 Fed Reg 80548 (http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NOP/standards/FullText.pdf) Dec. 21, 2000) & the final rule has been codified at 7 CFR Part 205 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=11fd57b422b6314d866dc4b02f1a101d;rgn=div5;view=text;node=7:3 .1.1.9.30;idno=7;cc=ecfr)

This program establishes national standards for the production and handling of organically produced products, including a National List of substances approved for and prohibited from use in organic production and handling.

I didn't read the entire thing - but it does define "organic" and states that in order to be labeled "organic" the item must be produced & handled in accordance with the regulations.... :shrug:

[angela52882]

Ok, so I tried some Organic Milk since it was on sale....I'm not too sure if I like it. It was ok in cereal, but just a plain glass...its a little funky. Maybe an acquired taste?

[buzzboy]

soy milk is crap, only drink it if you're a hard pressed vegan or horribly lactose intollerant

I'm horribly lactose intolerant.

I become violently ill when i have any milk or other dairy products.

Fever, cold sweats, gas, diareeah, vomiting.

Luckily i dont get exposed bad enough to get very sick, i useually notice on the first bite. Thing is i have nto always been this way, developed when i was about 17. So i know everything im missing and exactly what dairy tastes like.

When you get this sick having dairy you can tell the second some gets in your mouth. It just tastes...well....forbidden, like TOO good/creamy.

Personally i prefer rice milk as the soy milk makes me gassy. But the rice milk is a little thin. I out rice milk on cereal, and if im just drinking or gonna cook with it ill use soy milk. The flavored soy milks taste very similar to flavored cow-milk except they are a little starchy. The chocolate soy is good, i havent tried vanilla soy yet.

[Jenni XO]

Ok, so I tried some Organic Milk since it was on sale....I'm not too sure if I like it. It was ok in cereal, but just a plain glass...its a little funky. Maybe an acquired taste?


Usually if something is on sale.. it's on sale for a reason. Especially organic stuff.

My mom bought lactose free milk on sale once, because we thought maybe my two year old daughter was lactose intolerant [turns out she just over stuffs herself, and therefore pukes it all back up.. but anyway], and Skylar REFUSED to drink it after one sip. I went out and bought a well known, regular priced brand, and she drank it just fine.



I love organic over regular. It's much richer.

[BuzzCat]

Ok, so I tried some Organic Milk since it was on sale....I'm not too sure if I like it. It was ok in cereal, but just a plain glass...its a little funky. Maybe an acquired taste?

Milk is on sale because it's going bad. No other reason.

Organic milk tastes no different than non organic milk.

We switched to whole milk all together, because we can just keep it in the cabinet and not have to buy more milk every few days. Plus, it's sweeter, so if I'm cutting down on all the fun tasty stuff, I get a good sweet fix just in my cereal. I <3 Soy Dream (original). Very tasty. I could easily drink a glass of it, were I inclined. Good with oreos too.