Learning to draw

[Emperor Tux]

So I figured I'd post this here on account of the subject of this forum...I've been recently thinking of learning how to draw (read: draw WELL, I currently am the master of stickfigures but can't draw much beyond that). I'm pretty good with the camera and writing, but I'm not that good at the whole drawing thing. Trying to get into it due to living with a few rather artistically talented people...anyone have any ideas? Should I go out and check out a book on basic stuff, take a class (I've noticed that many end up filling up with people who are damn good though), just pick up a pencil and paper, etc?

[cleophite]

Whether or not you're in a class, keeping your own sketchbook where you can keep working on whatever you want is extremely helpful. I keep mine laying around the house where I can pick them up and doodle in them at any time.

[Mitaic]

there are certain exercises you can do to improve your drawings, too, depending on what you want.

For example, we are so used to think how things are related to gether in position (eg. eye and nose, mouth, etc), that we often ignore the subtle details that a realistic drawing requires.

Realism:

One thing I woud encourse beginners of realism drawings to do, is take a picture, rotate it upside down, and draw the image you see in the picture. It feels more difficult, but it trains your eye to see things that you wouldn't see otherwise.

Another exercise a beginner can do, is drawing without looking at the paper, while looking at your subject. This trains the hand-eye co-ordination. As you get more practice, you get a better "feel" where your hand should go on paper. The exercise helps your brain to make accurate proportional translation from your eye to your hand motions.

Other exercise involves playing with colours, studying shapes, etc. Many techniques may seem counter-intuitive (ie. how to get a bright light) because most often art requires a thorough understanding how illusion works. Once you master the elements, then there's the organisation of the picture (much like composition in photography, for example) and that's the creative, fun part of art.

Anyway, just my two cents.

[LOGO]

Whether or not you're in a class, keeping your own sketchbook where you can keep working on whatever you want is extremely helpful. I keep mine laying around the house where I can pick them up and doodle in them at any time.
I totally agree.
I had the same drawing instructor for 2 years in college, and his best advice was to keep a sketchbook on you at all times.
Pick something you can't draw well (for me it's always been the human figure, in it's entirety) and draw page after page of nothing but your problematic subject.
Put reference clippings in there to help you.
Most beginning fine artists can't draw detailed objects from memory, so it would be extremely beneficial for you to "copy" photographs as best you can.
Now, I have to ask, do you have any formal art training, whatsoever?
The reason why I ask is because, since you not only want to learn to draw, but to draw well, there are some fundamental principles of design that you must know.
Some of these basics include line, color, texture, shape, form, scale, and spacial relationships.
There are tons of books out there that cover these design principles.
It is also important to understand how objects interact with one another in a 3D world.
You'll need to know about drawing in perspective.
LEARN ABOUT COLOR!
Drawing is much more than pencil and paper.
Here are 3 excellent books on color theory:
Color Harmony (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0935603069/002-8643348-5504037?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance)
Color Harmony 2 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1564960668/002-8643348-5504037?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance)
PANTONE Guide to Communicating with Color (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0966638328/002-8643348-5504037?v=glance&n=283155&%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance)
Also, it will be in your best interest to study art closely from now on.
Visit art museums and local art exhibits, and brush up on your art history.
It's natural for you to gravitate toward a particular style (hopefully, you will eventually define one for yourself), but keep an open mind to ALL styles, and learn to appreciate the intrinsic qualities of each.
Begin to recognize different periods in art history, and the characteristics that defined them.
I know this sounds like a lot, but drawing (well) is much more than grabbing a pencil and paper and having at it. Anyone can do that, but it seems like you want to go further. The only way you can do that is if you put forth a lot of effort.
Good luck!

[Mitaic]

well put, Logo.

We joke about how everyone could've drawn like Picasso... but if you study him, you realize he still obeyed and merely put creative spins on the same principles that have been around for centuries. Those fundamental techniques you just have to bite the bullet, practice, practice and practice.

and if you don't practice, you lose the skills, too. I found that out the hard way! :(

[Emperor Tux]

See, now that is some excellent advice from all of you! Thanks!

As for formal training, I don't have any since after grade school (we had art class from 1st to 8th grade), and while that may sound trivial since it was grade school, it actually was pretty darn good. Covered perspective, color/shading, proportion, human figure, and a slew of other things. Funny how at the time I found it silly to have been taught that at a young age, but now I realize I remember most if not all of it pretty well. When it comes to studying art, I can't say I've done much other than going to a few of the vairous museums in DC as well as taking a couple art history classes.

I figure this isn't something I'll learn overnight (even if I am a fast learner), but something that's gonna take some practice before I start to get going. Most of the things I've drawn so far that looked good at all have been landscapes or such. But this is likely since that's most of what I draw due to being one of those people that sketches with the use of rulers and compasses and such...haha, the curse of being a science student, it's all about measures and being accurate or to scale.

[LOGO]

and if you don't practice, you lose the skills, too. I found that out the hard way! :(
That's for damned sure.
I just got back into illustrating again within the past year, and I SUCKED at first.
I'm still pretty rusty, and I am still evolving my own style, but it feels good to be doing it again.

[sexyinscrubs]

there are certain exercises you can do to improve your drawings, too, depending on what you want.

For example, we are so used to think how things are related to gether in position (eg. eye and nose, mouth, etc), that we often ignore the subtle details that a realistic drawing requires.

Realism:

One thing I woud encourse beginners of realism drawings to do, is take a picture, rotate it upside down, and draw the image you see in the picture. It feels more difficult, but it trains your eye to see things that you wouldn't see otherwise.

Another exercise a beginner can do, is drawing without looking at the paper, while looking at your subject. This trains the hand-eye co-ordination. As you get more practice, you get a better "feel" where your hand should go on paper. The exercise helps your brain to make accurate proportional translation from your eye to your hand motions.

Other exercise involves playing with colours, studying shapes, etc. Many techniques may seem counter-intuitive (ie. how to get a bright light) because most often art requires a thorough understanding how illusion works. Once you master the elements, then there's the organisation of the picture (much like composition in photography, for example) and that's the creative, fun part of art.

Anyway, just my two cents.


well said....my art teacher in high school made us practice this technique of looking only at the picture not what we were drawing on simple photograghs of people. it worked really well, my drawings surprised me and i'm no artist believe me.:artist:

[Mitaic]

See, now that is some excellent advice from all of you! Thanks!

As for formal training, I don't have any since after grade school (we had art class from 1st to 8th grade), and while that may sound trivial since it was grade school, it actually was pretty darn good. Covered perspective, color/shading, proportion, human figure, and a slew of other things. Funny how at the time I found it silly to have been taught that at a young age, but now I realize I remember most if not all of it pretty well. When it comes to studying art, I can't say I've done much other than going to a few of the vairous museums in DC as well as taking a couple art history classes.

I figure this isn't something I'll learn overnight (even if I am a fast learner), but something that's gonna take some practice before I start to get going. Most of the things I've drawn so far that looked good at all have been landscapes or such. But this is likely since that's most of what I draw due to being one of those people that sketches with the use of rulers and compasses and such...haha, the curse of being a science student, it's all about measures and being accurate or to scale.


haha! You can get around the curse of being a science student, by studying the principles of illusion. There was a really good article in the scientific journal Nature a couple of months ago on it. Artists exploit illusions like no one's business.

[Emperor Tux]

haha! You can get around the curse of being a science student, by studying the principles of illusion. There was a really good article in the scientific journal Nature a couple of months ago on it. Artists exploit illusions like no one's business.

And now I'm going to go to the library tomorrow to read it....well, if I forget to I will on Thursday then. :P

[Mitaic]

That's for damned sure.
I just got back into illustrating again within the past year, and I SUCKED at first.
I'm still pretty rusty, and I am still evolving my own style, but it feels good to be doing it again.

well, at least I am still pretty difficult to beat at Pictionary. :D


:sok:

[Tails]

I gotta say, taking a class really helped me simply develop discipline and try to tackle subjects that I might not otherwise do because they seem too difficult (contour line drawing of a skeleton).

I think it's important to draw from life, rather than photographic reference, where the "translation to 2D space" has already been accomplished for you. Personally I found that my ability to measure lengths and distances was improved when drawing from life.

If you can, try to draw every day... what everyone has said about "losing it" is true. I only draw occasionally now, whereas I wanted to pursue illustration as a career in the past, and people can say what they will but I know that I'm not getting a whole lot better like I was when I was drawing daily. I suppose it helps if you really enjoy it, since that makes filling up those sketchbooks easier.

And for God's sake, don't beat yourself up over it. If you're going to compare yourself with someone, compare your work with your work, rather than with someone else's work... it's a lot more satisfying to see that you're making progress than to see that you still have "a long way to go." Learned this the hard way.

Oh, and art jams are great, too, if you can find some. :yes:

Good luck!

[LOGO]

...the curse of being a science student, it's all about measures and being accurate or to scale.
HA!
I can get pretty anal about my artwork, as well, but be careful doing this.
Mitaic hit the nail on the head by saying that an artist needs to master illusion.
Part of this illusion is faking something so that it looks "right."
Accurate measurements are not always going to be helpful.
Take my Mosaic flyer (the one with the green circular pattern background and hot DJ chick with blue hair) for example.
The eyes and lips are huge in relation to the rest of her face.
But I was not going for Realism.
By exaggerating the size of the eyes and lips, I have given her a healthy dose of sex appeal—the exact effect I was after.
The image would've looked completely different, had it been done more realistically.

[Mitaic]

And now I'm going to go to the library tomorrow to read it....well, if I forget to I will on Thursday then. :P

Here's the reference:

Nature 434, 301-307 (17 March 2005) | doi: 10.1038/434301a
The artist as neuroscientist
Patrick Cavanagh

Actually, that particular issue has an entire section devoted to the relationship between art (wheither it's literary, performance, or visual) and science. I highly recommend it. If anyone wants a copy and do not have access to the journal, I can probably get pdf's for you.

[DeAtHmOnGeR bEaR]

Most beginning fine artists can't draw detailed objects from memory, so it would be extremely beneficial for you to "copy" photographs as best you can.
I studied for a summer under an iconagrapher (sp?) when I was younger. It was interesting, because when I presented him the pieces I'd already drawn/painted from memory, he remarked in broken russian/english that it seemed that I couldn't see my subject very well... It took me a few minutes to realize he meant what you just said.

Wow. Seems so strange to think of how close I came to joining the nuns and painting orthodox icons.

Heh.

[Jungle Jessi]

http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html

of course this only teaches you basic dragon-drawing.....after that you're on your own.

[tinybinderclip]

I recommend this book:
http://www.drawright.com/

[cleophite]

Oh, another thing about drawing -- its not just about what's on the paper, its about what you see and how you see it. Once you realize and SEE that everything around you is simply made out of lines, it becomes a lot easier to put it onto paper. I would also practice drawing negative space; it can help to look at the space around an object as well.

If you're drawing people, I would reccomend getting an anatomy book. Once you understand what the structure is on the inside, its a lot easier to draw the outside ;)

[sassypance]

i have several anime drawing books and their tips and instruction are pretty good if you're interested in manga at all :shrug:

it really helped me see the differences between animation and realism, before i would just draw a character with some features of both. those books allowed me to hone in on the animation drawing skill... they're like $20 a piece and you can find them at about any bookstore.

[tinybinderclip]

Oh, another thing about drawing -- its not just about what's on the paper, its about what you see and how you see it. Once you realize and SEE that everything around you is simply made out of lines, it becomes a lot easier to put it onto paper. I would also practice drawing negative space; it can help to look at the space around an object as well.

If you're drawing people, I would reccomend getting an anatomy book. Once you understand what the structure is on the inside, its a lot easier to draw the outside ;)

Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain helps you see differently as you describe. I definitely recommend it. If you're new at drawing, it'll totally change your drawing for the better.

[Emperor Tux]

If you're drawing people, I would reccomend getting an anatomy book. Once you understand what the structure is on the inside, its a lot easier to draw the outside ;)

Got Netter's Atlas of Human Anatomy from an anatomy class I took. Best anatomical atlas I've seen. :)


i have several anime drawing books and their tips and instruction are pretty good if you're interested in manga at all :shrug:

it really helped me see the differences between animation and realism, before i would just draw a character with some features of both. those books allowed me to hone in on the animation drawing skill... they're like $20 a piece and you can find them at about any bookstore.

Considering that I watch anime and read manga all the time, I am interested in learning to draw as such, haha. I think one of my apt-mates has a few books on this that I might be able to borrow.



Oh and everyone, thanks for all the ideas/advice. Seriously, it's excellent stuff. Been thinking about learning to draw for a while, and I've been wanting to get it right and not just doodle and claim that I can draw....like to be able to fully convey the feeling of the subject.

[LitainCognita]

The one thing that has always helped me was the Blind Contour method. I think someone already mention this...basically drawing without looking at the paper and keeping your pencil on the paper to produce a solid, fluid line.

Another thing I tried was the scale method. You can make one yourself out of a picture mat, black string and drafting tape. Once you make that, you lightly draw lines proportionate to your scale on your paper, hold your scale at arms length at the object you want to draw and draw what you see one box at a time.

[ladymaroo]

books are great, but nothing beats taking a class, imo. i've been drawing/doodling since i was little, but actually taking classes in college helped me to understand basic art principles and techniques, and with that understanding, i've since come more into my own style. the one-on-one interaction you get with your instructor and even fellow classmates is invaluable. learning from a book will only get you so far -- you need that critical exchange with someone who has a trained eye to help you evolve as an artist. :D

[tinybinderclip]

Yes, a class or classes rather are the best thing, but a good one can be expensive. An alternative to classes would be to join a drawing group with experienced artists that way you can get good advice and good critiques without people kissing your ass.

[LOGO]

Oh, another thing about drawing -- its not just about what's on the paper, its about what you see and how you see it. Once you realize and SEE that everything around you is simply made out of lines, it becomes a lot easier to put it onto paper. I would also practice drawing negative space; it can help to look at the space around an object as well.
:yes:
Negative space is just as important as positive space in art.
I have trained my eye to pay attention to it to such a degree that when I look at anything—not just artwork—my eye naturally focuses on the negative space first.
It's very weird, because I'll often point out "hidden" things to people who would be otherwise oblivious to it.

Also, paying close attention to the forms that are generated in negative space will allow you to prevent undesirable happenstance.

For example, I was driving to work one day, and I passed by a work van with a logo on it that looked roughly like this:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/atomicvibe/badexample03.jpg

The logo had an accomanying business name in the non-arrowed boxes.
Apparently, the business was some sort of elevator repair outfit.

When I saw this, I immediately noticed something very wrong about the negative space.
It forms a visual swastika.
I couldn't believe the designer who had created it had not seen this.

Strip out the color, and look at it closely.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/atomicvibe/badexample01.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/atomicvibe/badexample02.jpg

There is definitely a subliminal swastika there.
I am fairly certain the "designer" did not intend for this to happen.
More than likely, the logo was created by an inexperienced designer with no understanding of negative space.

[ladymaroo]

Yes, a class or classes rather are the best thing, but a good one can be expensive. An alternative to classes would be to join a drawing group with experienced artists that way you can get good advice and good critiques without people kissing your ass.
agreed, but if it's a REAL art class, people won't be kissing your ass. :catalyst:

[cleophite]

The one thing that has always helped me was the Blind Contour method. I think someone already mention this...basically drawing without looking at the paper and keeping your pencil on the paper to produce a solid, fluid line.


:werd:

I think this one is really important. It teaches you to get the flow of the entire shape on the paper and to not worry about being microscopically precise.

[PimpZtress RaH]

I was never "formally trained" as an artist - and yeah, I wish I would have taken some art. I love to draw and paint, sculpt, design --but somehow I managed to out-do a whole art department's worth of students and get myself a scholarship working in the graphics department for two years in a row at my college (go figure?) - first with photography and dark-room work and then for individual skill as a classic artists. I also went on from there to work for three different sign companies - painting, drawing, signmaking, wall murals, design and logo work. Working with the "master" signmaker and the professor of the art department I learned a few things...

Here is what I would say for practical application:
1. Yeah...do what they said - check out every kind of drawing/painting/art book. There are a million different techniques for doing things you wish you knew how to do. AND actually...if you have the time and/or money go to a NEW bookstore! I can't tell you how frustrated I have been at the library - even with all their books there are always really supper books coming out all the time - browse through them, if not buy them - see what they have to offer. While you are at the library, check out a few children's books for simple drawn figures - a pile of nice big picture books where you love the pictures - draw those!!
2. Yeah, definately start a "scrap-book" or a "scrap-box" (in my case the whole damn counter in my kitchen and a pile on my dresser) of images you really like. Look at them. If you see a magazine or a black and white photo in an add or a logo you like, but you don't know why...you just do? clip it - look at it. What did you like about it? Learn symmetry and weight and why things fit. That is SO very key!!! Things don't always have to be complicated to be good! Sometimes it is the things that go AGAINST the theories that catch people's eye. --and just like DJing? EVERYONE is a critic!! Do what feels good and right to you - be able to learn from what others say, but don't take it personal.
3. I started sketching from black and white photos. It helps you to really concentrate on shading and how and why something looks darker - find images online and turn them black and white, print them out and sketch them! Try to see the shapes in all angles - do a face from the side, looking down onto the face from above - a frog leaping - a hand squishing a leaf.
4. Yeah...keep paper and a pencil/black ink pen around as offen as possible.
5. Practice shapes - a straight line - a curved S - a circle - an oval - a triangle - do it fast and then over and over again...it trains your mind to follow a shape. THEN...find a shape. AN apple, a cd, a cat's head - find those shapes - three circles, two triangles, ovals....draw it in shapes - then fill in the gaps. DONT erase! Just do it over and over so you can see how you progress.
6. don't be afraid to try hard things! So many times I have heard art students say learn this or that theory and never jump ahead - yeah...well...that gets damn boring for a creative mind - inbetween your circles, make a giant monkey - you will be surprised how well you do. Draw things you never thought you would draw (ie, a giant monkey, the back of a guys head, a tail pipe) abstract and creative thinking will wake up those dead art cells in your brain. :D
7. MOST IMPORTANT?!! DONT USE A STUPID #2 school pencil!! DAMN!! no one ever says this one!! Everyone thinks you need to be a master artist to use a REAL graphite pencil! DAMN what a difference it makes!! Go to your local art/michaels/total crafts store. BUY a couple of GOOD pencils! yeah, a #2 GRAPHITE or maybe pick up a coal pencil too for fun - but also get a #4 and a #3 --the shading will amaze you!! AND you won't have those pesky hardlines UNLESS YOU WANT THEM THERE!! You can even blend the things and make something BLACK if you want it that color or super light without the slightest individual marks -- AND --don't forget!! A GOOD ERASER!! BUY a KNEADABLE eraser!!!!!! DO EEEEET!! They will totally pick up any stray marks, you can form them to any shape from big to tiny, and you only need squish them up and use them over and over. The right eqipment makes all the difference - even if you use newsprint to draw on -- GET A DAMN GRAPHITE pencil or four!! ALSO...if you can, get some beautiful colored pencils that actually BLEND and shade perfectly --PRISMACOLORS!! Yeah, they are damn expensive, but you will use the hell out of them and love them like your own children (just ask mine who have been warned with their lives should they use mine)! --oh and stuff to DRAW ON? There are actually really good papers out these days for printers some real heavy/textured stuff buy a package (like even up to a 50lb weight) - use that at home instead of the sketch notebooks they are much cheaper than doing the individual books and it is quality paper!

I am not a huge artist. I have been paid for my stuff and even done work on consignment. I put together many publishments with photos and artwork, made logos and designed signs. I am not an art student - so those guys definatley have an advantage over me - painting techniques and cool mediums...I have to go and read and search books to find my answers - they are lucky!! - so definately listen to what the others have to say...but since I did it the hard way...that is about the only way I can tell someone else. :D
Practice practice practice oh, and practice - then practice. Let me know how you are doing and I would love to see some of your stuff when you get something together - hit me up! :D

[Gizmo]

i second Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. It describes exactly what those who "draw good" see when they draw something, as opposed to what the "stick-figure" folk see. I used to think drawing well couldn't be taught until I read that book.

It claims the reason that the majority of adults cannot draw is because they are "stuck" in the early childhood phase of translating everything into the basic shapes of childhood. Due to a lack of practice and lack of quality drawing classes past the age of 4 or 5, seeing without symbolizing never changes past this point.

one of the first exercises in dismantling the symbols is to take a portrait of a person and turn it upside down, and draw exactly what you see without turning it right side up. It's really incredible what the results were.

anyway, good luck.

[madeofwires]

and if you don't practice, you lose the skills, too. I found that out the hard way! :(


so true unfortunately.

good luck!

[Gizmo]

The one thing that has always helped me was the Blind Contour method. I think someone already mention this...basically drawing without looking at the paper and keeping your pencil on the paper to produce a solid, fluid line.

I've seen some pictures drawn by people on mescaline and they look the same as those drawn by the blind-contour method.

[madeofwires]

i totally suck @ drawing but had to take classes as requirement when i was working towards my degree in photography. as much as i sometimes hated it, i learned to draw pretty well, and drawing can help so much more in observing composition and lighting. unfortunately i don't do so much drawing anymore but i would like to get back into it one day. i would def say take a class - get hand on, and work with others, see others, get critique etc

[PimpZtress RaH]

:yes:
Negative space is just as important as positive space in art.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/atomicvibe/badexample02.jpg

There is definitely a subliminal swastika there.
I am fairly certain the "designer" did not intend for this to happen.
More than likely, the logo was created by an inexperienced designer with no understanding of negative space.
oooo good advice and DAMN --- yeah, I find stuff like that all the TIME!! cartoonish trees also have a way of having all sorts of "human crotch" experiences in children's books --heh!! That was very cool example!

OH, and the WORST? Is when you see something used like for a logo or a huge billboard or business cards and they don't DRAW IT CORRECTLY!! Like I have seen leaves with the veins painted the wrong way - or my favorite was that of a store chain sign whose logo was a french horn? It was drawn like a coronet, the mouthpiece was wrong, the number of keys wrong and in the wrong place --it is like they forgot to get a REAL picture of the thing and thought their brain would fill in the extras! --of course there is changing things for art's sake....but for GODS SAKE --if you aren't sure how many legs a ladybug has, or the placement of said legs - GET A PICTURE! <---yeah, I saw that one on a logo too - a whole company had 8 legs on their ladybug logo. OOOOOps!:slap:

[LOGO]

http://www.fashionunited.it/gfx/news2004/fedex_logo.jpg

Currently, one of the most famous—and brilliantly-executed—exploitations of negative space.

[Mitaic]

another example of negative space gone awry...

http://www.bme.jhu.edu/~vhuang/albums/funnyWeb/APC.jpg

[LOGO]

HA!
Funny, but it's not the negative space that is problematic.
Some "designers" are just plain retarded.

[Mitaic]

http://www.learn-to-draw.com/

[Emperor Tux]

Yeah, so I kind of dropped off the boards for a week or two after posting this, but really thanks for all the advice and such everyone. Hopefully in a little while I'll be able to draw something well enough that I'll be confident enough to show people. Got going on basic shapes and starting to brush up on my shading skills and such already, so starting to get on my way. I figure I'll get a proper (but simple most likely) sketchbook when I get out to an art store.

[0ptimusPr1me]

That design looks naughty.....I know I'm bad.

This thread has been extremely helpful - I was just tellin LOGO today that I wanted to get back into the creative mode that I apparently lost since HS

I've been looking to switch career modes to get into more creative/media campaigns type work, maybe with a public health spin:woowoo:

[ComaToastGhost]

this might help with drawing figures at least:

Try taking a picture of a cartoon person and putting tracing paper overtop and tracing it, then get a new sheet and try to draw it without.....your hand will get used to drawing that form. then you can try it with a real human figure. after you get used to all the parts of the body by tracing them, youll be able to draw from memory.

[0ptimusPr1me]

http://www.fashionunited.it/gfx/news2004/fedex_logo.jpg

Currently, one of the most famous—and brilliantly-executed—exploitations of negative space.

no..YOU're an exploitation of negative space you poop head!:pos:

[sassypance]

AR 101 is always an option too

[ZRilla]

Just pay added attention to all the work you see around you. What works, what doesn't, how did they do it, why did they do it, etc.

Be bold - try and fail. Don't get stuck in the rut of always drawing things in the same way or the same style. Mix it up, find out what works and what doesn't.