is it cheating?

[breakfiend]

overheard some people in the vinyl section of my local, saying how they get the "perfect" mix.
by chopping up different "good" parts of their mixes and splicing them up together

isnt that classed as cheating?

i thought the idea was the process of it, not the result?

[Bioteknik]

ask empath.. he's the expert.

[Liftedtrance]

i think if its a studio mix, it might not be considered cheating by some people. (some ppl definitely would still consider it cheating tho)

if its supposed to be a demo mix, or a live mix, then i reckon thats cheatin an' you can get shot round these parts for that.

[proximity]

you will never learn to mix that way , plus when you trainwreck at the club after you get booked for your perfect demo, you will never play there again

[Master Miguel Lush]

i do consider it cheating.... i know some people that would record their mixes and then take them into the computer to adjust sound levels and quality, which i don't mind (even to producing a mixed demo. That might make them good producers, but not good dj's.

[Skandar]

You can also plug a bunch of songs into a computer program and get a "perfect mix."

[DJ STEEVROCK]

isnt a demo or "Demonstration " of your talents supposed to be perfect???


EDIT: who wants to hear people trainwrecking??

[Arkitekt]

Why would someone do something like that? It doesnt take any skill to chop up a shitty mix into a good mix....

And as far as i know now one is perfect.. hence no perfect mix....

[Skandar]

Is it a demonstration of your DJ talent or your ability to manipulate computer software?

[DJ STEEVROCK]

isnt mixing music taking certain parts of a song and mixing it to another song. Whether you do it on a computer or TTs, does that really matter if you mixes sounds tight ass a MOFO.

I personally dont care!!!??

[proximity]

isnt a demo or "Demonstration " of your talents supposed to be perfect???


EDIT: who wants to hear people trainwrecking??

if youre still trainwrecking you shouldnt be putting out a demo

[Liftedtrance]

isnt mixing music taking certain parts of a song and mixing it to another song. Whether you do it on a computer or TTs, does that really matter if you mixes sounds tight ass a MOFO.

I personally dont care!!!??

it does matter if its supposed to be a demo that represents your ability to mix live. for obvious reasons.


but if its a studio mix... i'd rather they mix normally w/o chopping it up and editing it on the computer, but, ultimately it is all about the music, so i cant say i care much at all

[DJ STEEVROCK]

if youre still trainwrecking you shouldnt be putting out a demo


Even the best of best trainwreck every once in awhile. I personally edit all my productions and Im sure the best of best just dont go into the studio and bang out perfect mixes every time. Especially if there expecting you to pay for it.

[RAMIRO]

as a promoter i would want a "demo" that hasnt been chopped or edited.. that way i know who i am booking and what im getting into ..




then again.. for pure listening pleasure nothing beats clean tight mixes...


guess it just depends on what you looking for..

[DJ STEEVROCK]

I really dont understand.......?????????

Dont DJs take certain parts of one song ("chopping" "selecting") and mix into another part of a song "selecting" and making a good mix.

So whats the problems with using EDITing Tools to make that same mix you personally thought of and make it sound better with comp software, processors, effects, samplers..etc.

Personally someone that can utilize all tools of the trade makes them a better dj, EDITOR, and producer.

[DJ STEEVROCK]

Im sure SASHA, IM, Nu Nrg, AVB, could do with out there computers nowadays and companies like ABLETON and TRACKTOR are going out of business.

[RAMIRO]

cuz if you use all these tools to make a cd.. and you dont get to use these tools when you are spinning out ..

then its not going to sound the same.. and the promoter will have gotten a false sense


this is just me though by the way..


dont take anything i say to seriously

:D:D

i just like good music damnit!

[Buddafly]

I think I owned andy on this once. :afterbuzz: rami summed it up nicely. you can't edit in a real life, behind the decks scenario.


if you have to edit your mix just so people won't throw it out the window when they listen to it, then you don't need an actual gig yet.

if you want to "just produce", by all means- chop/edit your shit. then you, and only you will know you're fake.

[DJ STEEVROCK]

cuz if you use all these tools to make a cd.. and you dont get to use these tools when you are spinning out ..

then its not going to sound the same.. and the promoter will have gotten a false sense


this is just me though by the way..


dont take anything i say to seriously

:D:D

i just like good music damnit!

DJs use laptop and computer software ALL the time now. The have chopped up beats and loops preset just waiting to be activated by a push of a button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you someone disagrees then they shouldnt go see Sasha, or Infected mushrooom this summer. POINT BLANK

[breakfiend]

well maybe if a perfect mix is created, then lets hope thats brought into a club on cd, sit back get hammered, dont worry bout wether the mix is gonna mess, doh, what am i saying its was mixed last week!
bugger those people who ask for requests!

btw when i started the thread i didnt want bring sofware mixing into it, as i dont beleive theres anything wrong with sofware mixers, there just a bit less fun.

love that man holdin the sun picture, how do i get an avatar on here?

[Skandar]

Steve, their point is that YOU don't use the software live that you could use to make a studio mix. Would be different if you mixed live with Ableton or something like that.

[Skandar]

love that man holdin the sun picture, how do i get an avatar on here?

Thanks. You need 75 posts before you can load a custom avatar.

[Agent Sunshine]

If you someone disagrees then they shouldnt go see Sasha, or Infected mushrooom this summer. POINT BLANK

Done and done!

I personally have no interest in a mix that is created using software editing rather than mixing. I've had to fix things like flaws in the actual recording (digital artifacts and shit like that) but I want to hear real live mixing. That is usually of equal interest to me as the tracks themselves.

As a promoter I wouldn't generally book anyone whom I hadn't heard play live (I only threw one-offs, not weeklies/monthlies), so even if someone gave me a spotless mix, I wouldn't just put them on the decks, but if that happened and then they sucked at mixing live, I'd make sure everyone knew not to book that person.

[spiggums]

DJs use laptop and computer software ALL the time now. The have chopped up beats and loops preset just waiting to be activated by a push of a button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you someone disagrees then they shouldnt go see Sasha, or Infected mushrooom this summer. POINT BLANK

and the award for completely missing the point goes to....

[DJ STEEVROCK]

Steve, their point is that YOU don't use the software live that you could use to make a studio mix. Would be different if you mixed live with Ableton or something like that.


Dude...Every fucking cd is Mastered and edited. There no fucking dj or artist that goes in the studio and bangs out a perfect mix. Theres occupations called "EDITOR" and services called "MASTERING"


And that still doesnt change the fact that that SAME dj or artist created that mix. The Software doesnt make the mix....the dj does!!!!! so if you can create it on a pc it shouldnt be a problem creating it on TTs and mixer.

[Skandar]

so if you can create it on a pc it shouldnt be a problem creating it on TTs and mixer.

Key word "shouldn't"

If you have no problem creating it on TT's and a mixer, then why not create it on TT's and a mixer?

[DJ STEEVROCK]

Key word "shouldn't"

If you have no problem creating it on TT's and a mixer, then why not create it on TT's and a mixer?

IT 2005 that why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DJ STEEVROCK]

and the award for completely missing the point goes to....


Ok maybe Im missing something??????????????


But for the record my mixes are created from my own head and on TTs and a mixer. And Im loooking forward to upgrade to pc.

[daniella downs]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

yes, it's cheating.

[DJ STEEVROCK]

Done and done!


As a promoter I wouldn't generally book anyone whom I hadn't heard play live


So I take youll never book local, up and coming, no street credit djs a chance????? You sure know talent

[daniella downs]

So I take youll never book local, up and coming, no street credit djs a chance????? You sure know talent


you are incorrect.

i havent made a demo in like 4 years.

and even that one i didnt give to anyone.

so anyone who's ever booked me, has done it because they heard me play out.

[DJ STEEVROCK]

you are incorrect.

i havent made a demo in like 4 years.

and even that one i didnt give to anyone.

so anyone who's ever
booked me, has done it because they heard me play out.

EDIT: But for people that dont get to play they use demos.. so whats wrong making it the best quality demo.

[Liftedtrance]

So I take youll never book local, up and coming, no street credit djs a chance????? You sure know talent

you could be a professional point misser.

is that an actual occupation?

maybe its an event in the olympics?

you'd take gold no sweat


lol sorry

[jibboo]

So why do they book you if they dont hear your music????????????????????/
cause he drops bombs :yes:

[daniella downs]

So why do they book you if they dont hear your music????????????????????/


because they hear me other places.

what about this arent you understanding?

[spiggums]

IT 2005 that why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

embracing technologies to create the performance you want is one thing...

creating a CD by editing down a mix to remove the mistakes and then passing it out allowing people to think it's an accurate representation of your live skills (which is the general assumption, so if it's not it should be indicated as such) that is where it becomes a problem...

there are acceptable uses of software to "master" a mix... for instance, I tend to record my mixes at a fairly low volume to prevent clipping... were I to (I never do, but I should) use soundforge or wavelab to increase the volume of my mix that wouldn't be an issue...

[DJ STEEVROCK]

[QUOTE=breakfiend]
by chopping up different "good" parts of their mixes and splicing them up together

QUOTE]


This how the thread started. But isnt this exactly what djs do when mixing. So how is it cheating!!!!!

[spiggums]

[QUOTE=breakfiend]
by chopping up different "good" parts of their mixes and splicing them up together

QUOTE]


This how the thread started. But isnt this exactly what djs do when mixing. So how is it cheating!!!!!

no it's not at all what they do... you're starting to make me wonder about that "DJ" in front of your screen name (pet peeve) if you don't understand the distinction here

[jibboo]

now how do you guys feel about final scratch.

[daniella downs]

[QUOTE=DJ STEEVROCK]

no it's not at all what they do... you're starting to make me wonder about that "DJ" in front of your screen name (pet peeve) if you don't understand the distinction here


Ed, DiDnT yOu KnOw ThAt Dj St*EE*vRoCk wAs ThE DoPeSt ThInG tO hIt TrAnCe SiNcE sUn*EE*L?

i dont quite grasp how he consistently misses the point either, but hey.

whatever.

FEEL THE TRANCE.

[daniella downs]

now how do you guys feel about final scratch.


same way i feel about using cd's.

if it's a really hard to get track, or promo, or something to that effect...

knock yourself out.

why not?

[spiggums]

now how do you guys feel about final scratch.

I wish I had Serato myself... (Rane's version)

I use CDs... I use vinyl... basically I use whatever medium I can get hot tracks on :)

[daniella downs]

EDIT: But for people that dont get to play they use demos.. so whats wrong making it the best quality demo.


because it's cheating.

deal with it.

this is a really funny topic considering what happened at transit last week.

regardless...

people have their opinions. you arent going to change it.

[jibboo]

same way i feel about using cd's.

if it's a really hard to get track, or promo, or something to that effect...

knock yourself out.

why not?
oh, i once heard a local promoter say, and for the life of me i can't remember who it was, that he would never book a dj who uses final scratch. when i asked why he told me its because you can't be sure if a dj using final scratch is *really* mixing. i just laughed.

[DJ STEEVROCK]

overheard some people in the vinyl section of my local, saying how they get the "perfect" mix.
by chopping up different "good" parts of their mixes and splicing them up together

isnt that classed as cheating?

i thought the idea was the process of it, not the result?

isnt "chopping" or "choosing" a good part of a song and "splicing" or "putting" them together to make one mix what djs do???????????

Thats what I tried to do live or in a studio mix. Granted you cant edit on stage but isnt this thread about Demo mixes??? Why would you want to make you demo as best as it can get.

[spiggums]

isnt "chopping" or "choosing" a good part of a song and "splicing" or "putting" them together to make one mix what djs do???????????

Thats what I tried to do live or in a studio mix. Granted you cant edit on stage but isnt this thread about Demo mixes??? Why would you want to make you demo as best as it can get.

dear "DJ" Steeverock,

Give it up... you are clearly beyond comprehension... but I will try this one more time and will use small words to help you understand.

When you are creating a "demo" you are presenting the world a "demonstration of your skills" so that they will know what to expect when they book you and/or come see you live... if you edit the "demo" to hide flaws in your technical ability you are not truly demonstrating your abilities. And therefore you are presenting people with a misrepresentation (sorry, tried to avoid words over 4 syllables) of your abilities.

This concept is simpler to understand than the basics of beatmatching (which are incredibly simple). How you're missing this is beyond me.

[jibboo]

:ohmygod:

[DeAtHmOnGeR bEaR]

This thread :afterbuzz:

[Master Miguel Lush]

isnt "chopping" or "choosing" a good part of a song and "splicing" or "putting" them together to make one mix what djs do???????????

Thats what I tried to do live or in a studio mix. Granted you cant edit on stage but isnt this thread about Demo mixes??? Why would you want to make you demo as best as it can get.
When it comes to a demo, you want to give other people a demostration of your skills at the decks. hence the word demo. No one's perfect, therefore a demo cd shall never be %100 perfect. If you want to put a mixed cd out, as a compilation or whatever, then it would be different. But in a demo you want to show what you could do in the booth. And most booths don't have pc's on them.

[spiggums]

oh, i once heard a local promoter say, and for the life of me i can't remember who it was, that he would never book a dj who uses final scratch. when i asked why he told me its because you can't be sure if a dj using final scratch is *really* mixing. i just laughed.

for what it's worth... this promoter is clearly off his rocker...

Phill (logic theorist) uses Final Scratch all the time... and I think it's quite clear that he's mixing... and damned good at it...

the only issue I have with Final Scratch and Serato is that I think DJs who plan to use it should either a: show up to gigs early to set up or b: use real records/cds to start and make the switch during their set... because it can be detrimental to another DJs performance if you set up during their set... and I've seen all sorts of crazy things happen on account of bigger named DJs utilizing it...

[Agent Sunshine]

Dude...Every fucking cd is Mastered and edited. There no fucking dj or artist that goes in the studio and bangs out a perfect mix. Theres occupations called "EDITOR" and services called "MASTERING"

And that still doesnt change the fact that that SAME dj or artist created that mix. The Software doesnt make the mix....the dj does!!!!! so if you can create it on a pc it shouldnt be a problem creating it on TTs and mixer.

Sorry, this is completely incorrect. I don't know what your criteria is for a "perfect mix," but none of my mixes or anyone in my old crew's mixes had any of the mixing "doctored" on a computer at all, and the only mastering we did was to use a normalizer to get the volume up. I don't think the quality of major label mix cds is any higher than my mixes, and if you disagree I want specifics as to why. Mixing records isn't really that hard, if you can't record an hour to 80 min mix without fucking up then you aren't at a level where you should be releasing cds. That's not a diss, it's just the standard by which most djs and promoters operate.


So I take youll never book local, up and coming, no street credit djs a chance????? You sure know talent

Well you obviously don't know anything about any party I've ever thrown, but no, that is in fact completely wrong, and not only that, I almost exclusively booked relatively unknown, up-and-coming or just completely underrated djs for my parties whether they were local or not. Examples: Chris Inperspective, Aaron Myers & Transit, Equinox, Clever, Orion, Hi Octane, Blame, and a bunch of SF djs you've probably never heard of. Good guess though.

[Joe L.]

i do consider it cheating.... i know some people that would record their mixes and then take them into the computer to adjust sound levels and quality, which i don't mind (even to producing a mixed demo. That might make them good producers, but not good dj's.


nothing wrong with putting the mix into software for adjusting levels and sound. That's the mastering process.

Not everyone has hi fi audio euipment available to record on.

[Master Miguel Lush]

sound quality mastering and cleaning is ok. Not everyone has the recording equipment needed to get a clean cut. But from adjusting sound levels and quality to chopping and pasting there is huge difference.

[djdavidmichael]

Don't fake the funk with that weak ass junk

[DjLantern]

I know I'm late on this one but its just too hard to pass up

beatmatching: live it, learn it, love it, use it

if you can't do it, don't try to beat the system

cleaning up your mixes does not consist of editing your trainwrecks

cleary this steverock kid hasnt grasped this concept yet

[Bioteknik]

DJs use laptop and computer software ALL the time now. The have chopped up beats and loops preset just waiting to be activated by a push of a button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you someone disagrees then they shouldnt go see Sasha, or Infected mushrooom this summer. POINT BLANK

good.. because I won't see them.

[Matt Sanborn]

If you cant make a 1 hour long demo without having errors big enough that require you to fix it on a CPU, then you should not be worried about putting out a demo- but on practicing.

A demo should not be edited. Mastering it is of course fine, but fixing trainwrecks and beatslips?? NO way, that is cheating. If I found out a demo some dj gave me was edited I would NEVER book them at any one of my events. Like I said- if they cant mix without fatal flaws for 1 hour in the comfort of their own home, how am I to trust them in a club setting for a 2 hour set in front of people that paid to come to my party?

no way.

[Bioteknik]

EDIT: But for people that dont get to play they use demos.. so whats wrong making it the best quality demo.

do you lie on your resume as well?

[Bioteknik]

now how do you guys feel about final scratch.

last I heard you still have to be able to beatmatch with final scratch, now traktor.. that's another topic.

[RAMIRO]

Hi Octane.


this the same kat that used to live in maryland... please techno.. and experimental stuff?

if soo .. dayum i havent seen or heard of him in ages.. hows he doing ?

[Jay Selway]

overheard some people in the vinyl section of my local, saying how they get the "perfect" mix.
by chopping up different "good" parts of their mixes and splicing them up together

isnt that classed as cheating?

i thought the idea was the process of it, not the result?

I make edits of the tracks I mix all the time. Not only to make them more dj friendly, but to come up with my own unique remix that nobody else has.

Plus, its fun :)

[nsI]

i dont see how thats not cheating :smurf:

[Jay Selway]

In regards to the whole studio mix thing. Rule of thumb - don't do anything on you demo that you couldn't reproduce at a real gig..

Seasoned djs / producers can tell when a dj is only good in the studio, and not in the booth.

[Jay Selway]

i dont see how thats not cheating :smurf:

Why is it cheating to do a unique remix or edit of a track? Pro djs do this all the time. Look at John 00 Fleming. One of the things that make him a unique dj is that he's got versions of tracks that NOBODY else has - simply because he takes the tracks he djs into the studio and edits / remixes them.

For example - there is an 8 bar loop in a track I'm using in a new mix - i don't like that loop - it has a lame sample in it. So I took it out.

Whats the problem with that?

[Jay Selway]

because it's cheating.

deal with it.

this is a really funny topic considering what happened at transit last week.

regardless...

people have their opinions. you arent going to change it.

What happened at Transit?

[Matt Sanborn]

cyzum- editing your own tracks/remixing is of course ok.

we are talkin fixing trainwrecks in your dj demo

[Jay Selway]

cyzum- editing your own tracks/remixing is of course ok.

we are talkin fixing trainwrecks in your dj demo

What they need to make is a time travel dj editing tool. So I could travel back to my last gig in the main room at cubik and fix the mix i did into "Void - The Creator".

DAMN YOU 621 FOR GETTING ME SO DRUNK!!!

[nsI]

cyzum- editing your own tracks/remixing is of course ok.

we are talkin fixing trainwrecks in your dj demo


exactly. thats a no no. if i trainwreck on a mix i wil do it all over before i get on soundforge or what ever program and try to edit it

def cheating IMO :shrug:

[insulin]

yes this is cheating. much like saying a live EDM show is you standing behind racks of keyboards and pretending to twiddle knobs while your computer plays back the performance. people are paying to hear you, and you are getting paid to provide a service so take the time and learn to mix the records and cd's.

[Scorched Earth]

I don't edit out any mistakes in the mixes that I release. Anyone who has received a mix from me can probably testify that there were some mistakes on the mix. That is a fact of playing live. You're not going to be absolutely perfect but you can damn well try!

As for editing out trainwrecks, its cheating. Plain and simple.

If you can't mix properly in your bedroom/studio, then you have no business playing in a club in front of a crowd, IMHO. :D

[Jay Selway]

yes this is cheating. much like saying a live EDM show is you standing behind racks of keyboards and pretending to twiddle knobs while your computer plays back the performance. people are paying to hear you, and you are getting paid to provide a service so take the time and learn to mix the records and cd's.

I hate to break this to you.. but almost all live performances by EDM artists are 'pre staged' to some degree.

Only person I know who does 100% live is Hallucinogen / Shpongle.

The best faking I ever saw was Union Jack in Allentown back in like 97 - dude was playing a 303 like it was a keyboard. :delirious:

[spiggums]

yes this is cheating. much like saying a live EDM show is you standing behind racks of keyboards and pretending to twiddle knobs while your computer plays back the performance. people are paying to hear you, and you are getting paid to provide a service so take the time and learn to mix the records and cd's.

umm...

I can't tell you how many live shows by producers of electronic music... even well respected producers of electronic music are primarily on DAT ;p

[insulin]

I hate to break this to you.. but almost all live performances by EDM artists are 'pre staged' to some degree.

Only person I know who does 100% live is Hallucinogen / Shpongle.

The best faking I ever saw was Union Jack in Allentown back in like 97 - dude was playing a 303 like it was a keyboard. :delirious:

i'm well aware of that but it is cool to see the choreographed hopping behind the keys :cheers:

i think orbital actually played a few of their lead lines and string sections during their live show. i know the orb had turntables and all kinds of crazy stuff running, then there was the FSOL broadcasts which i think was a lot of real time sample manipulation. though i could never tell.

[Cortex]

This is a great topic. I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

First of all, every demo I've released so far has been 100% live, with no zero editing... just mastering for sound quality.

Now I'm getting ready to put a new demo together, and here's the dilemma:

-I have a few tracks that are way to long, but have too many sounds going on during the middle in order to do a proper mix-out. What I'm probably going to do is record the track into my computer and make an edit of it, which I will than mix into my set via a burned CD.

However, someone brought up the point to me that it's just doing the same thing as if I edited the track (cut it shorter) straight from the final cut of my set. But doing that would make me feel as if I cheated. But is there really any difference? At the same time, that is how 99% of commercial mixes are constructed.

Some feedback pls?

[Jay Selway]

I remember a certain duo coming to Buzz and forgetting to hook up their audio cables and midi cables to their keyboards.

That was funny. Especially when they were 'playing' them...

[spiggums]

The best faking I ever saw was Union Jack in Allentown back in like 97 - dude was playing a 303 like it was a keyboard. :delirious:

once brought a band to dc...

they had four people on stage...

two guys with 2 or 3 keyboards each... one guy with like 2 full kits worth of electronic drum gear... and a singer...

plugged into the soundboard:
one line for the vocal
one line for the mono DAT input...

but then... I'm kind of a fan of the "if you're a band that's not going to actually play live... at least put on a show" which they did... cause so much of electronic dance music is difficult to reproduce live...

[Jay Selway]

This is a great topic. I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

First of all, every demo I've released so far has been 100% live, with no zero editing... just mastering for sound quality.

Now I'm getting ready to put a new demo together, and here's the dilemma:

-I have a few tracks that are way to long, but have too many sounds going on during the middle in order to do a proper mix-out. What I'm probably going to do is record the track into my computer and make an edit of it, which I will than mix into my set via a burned CD.

However, someone brought up the point to me that it's just doing the same thing as if I edited the track (cut it shorter) straight from the final cut of my set. But doing that would make me feel as if I cheated. But is there really any difference? At the same time, that is how 99% of commercial mixes are constructed.

Some feedback pls?

Seriously - do what you want. Have fun making your mix however you want.

[spiggums]

This is a great topic. I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

First of all, every demo I've released so far has been 100% live, with no zero editing... just mastering for sound quality.

Now I'm getting ready to put a new demo together, and here's the dilemma:

-I have a few tracks that are way to long, but have too many sounds going on during the middle in order to do a proper mix-out. What I'm probably going to do is record the track into my computer and make an edit of it, which I will than mix into my set via a burned CD.

However, someone brought up the point to me that it's just doing the same thing as if I edited the track (cut it shorter) straight from the final cut of my set. But doing that would make me feel as if I cheated. But is there really any difference? At the same time, that is how 99% of commercial mixes are constructed.

Some feedback pls?

I would say that the two things you're discussing are virtually the same... and neither of which would I consider "cheating"...

[Matt Sanborn]

Dave,

edit- let me read that better lol.

Thats not cheating bro. If you used software to beatmatch it via PC...then that is cheating.

[Cortex]

I'm glad you guys think that it's not cheating... that will help remove the guilt if I decide to go ahead with that kind of editing.

And Matt, you know me, I would never use beatmatching software! nor would I ever edit a trainwreck or beat slip. lol I feel guilty even glancing over at the BPM counter on my mixer :-)

[emoney]

this the same kat that used to live in maryland... please techno.. and experimental stuff?

if soo .. dayum i havent seen or heard of him in ages.. hows he doing ?


he edited some of his mixes:) but he tells you. ilya could be a total dick, rubbed everyone teh wrong way sometime, it seemed, but he was a damn good dj.

[Jay Selway]

he edited some of his mixes:) but he tells you. ilya could be a total dick, rubbed everyone teh wrong way sometime, it seemed, but he was a damn good dj.

hehehe.

Him being a an ass was part of his charm.

[emoney]

hehehe.

Him being a an ass was part of his charm.

haha, i suppose. he's inc olorado now

[djdavidmichael]

I make my dj hos do my beatmatching for me

And if they trainwreck i beat them with my headphones

[Skandar]

I make my dj hos do my beatmatching for me

And if they trainwreck i beat them with my headphones

You must have good dj hos.... or go through a lot of headphones.

[spiggums]

I make my dj hos do my beatmatching for me

And if they trainwreck i beat them with my headphones

hot...

I want "Record Handlers" like Frankie Wild had in "It's All Gone Pete Tong"

[romy]

haha, i suppose. he's inc olorado now

He did move to Colorado a while back. And I remember he did a really cool mix by splicing 3 mixes together just for the fun of it....but he told us he did it, and so as funny as it is somehow that is ok :)

[djdavidmichael]

hot...

I want "Record Handlers" like Frankie Wild had in "It's All Gone Pete Tong"

HEHE
Hell yeah!
She can handle my records...handle my beat matching..and then handle my...um yeah :koolaid: :tagteam: :koolaid:

OK i'm being perverted.

Damnthis thread is going :vipbathroom:

But on the serious...Mix your own demos....promote yourself with skills that you have mastered yourself. I know kthat I hate it when i hear someone on the decks that shouldn't be there....I know that most of you do as well...

I know that most of us dj's have worked very very hard to get our skills on the turntables to where they are and it's almost like someone is spitting in our faces when they hand out a mix that was done on the computer.

[robp]

If you cant make a 1 hour long demo without having errors big enough that require you to fix it on a CPU, then you should not be worried about putting out a demo- but on practicing.

A demo should not be edited. Mastering it is of course fine, but fixing trainwrecks and beatslips?? NO way, that is cheating. If I found out a demo some dj gave me was edited I would NEVER book them at any one of my events. Like I said- if they cant mix without fatal flaws for 1 hour in the comfort of their own home, how am I to trust them in a club setting for a 2 hour set in front of people that paid to come to my party?

no way.

so... are you telling me that everyone here gives out demo cd's that were recorded in one shot? What about the people that claim they aren't cheating because they arent using computers, but it took them 30 tries before they got a good clean 60 minute mix? What are the odds that this person is gonna play a set the next time as clean as his 30th attempt on a demo cd? What are the odds that he will be able to mix the same in a large club with strange acoustics and other people bothering him???

From what a lot of you are saying, i would have to draw the conclusion that any form of mastering would be cheating, then, because otherwise it is not an ACTUAL representation of your DJ skills. any changes!!!!

Lets see... everyone's talking about beatmatching. but what about other stuff? for instance, levels? a couple people mentioned its OK to master the levels, but nothing else. HUH?? I can't tell you how many times i have heard a great set ruined because the DJ didn't know how to match his levels.

bottom line. you give out a demo cd. it should not just be a demonstration of your technical ability to beatmatch. it is a demonstration of your beatmatching, your mixing skills, your phrasing, your key-matching skills, whatever skills you may have,but MOST IMPORTANTLY, your choice in music! because isnt that the #1 reason for booking a DJ? because he plays GOOD MUSIC and works the crowd??

All i'm tryin to say is, no matter how you went about making your "demo" cd, you better be able to bring it!!! I really dont care how it was made, as long as it still is a true demonstration of your abilities!!!

[djdavidmichael]

so... are you telling me that everyone here gives out demo cd's that were recorded in one shot? What about the people that claim they aren't cheating because they arent using computers, but it took them 30 tries before they got a good clean 60 minute mix? What are the odds that this person is gonna play a set the next time as clean as his 30th attempt on a demo cd? What are the odds that he will be able to mix the same in a large club with strange acoustics and other people bothering him???

From what a lot of you are saying, i would have to draw the conclusion that any form of mastering would be cheating, then, because otherwise it is not an ACTUAL representation of your DJ skills. any changes!!!!

Lets see... everyone's talking about beatmatching. but what about other stuff? for instance, levels? a couple people mentioned its OK to master the levels, but nothing else. HUH?? I can't tell you how many times i have heard a great set ruined because the DJ didn't know how to match his levels.

bottom line. you give out a demo cd. it should not just be a demonstration of your technical ability to beatmatch. it is a demonstration of your beatmatching, your mixing skills, your phrasing, your key-matching skills, whatever skills you may have,but MOST IMPORTANTLY, your choice in music! because isnt that the #1 reason for booking a DJ? because he plays GOOD MUSIC and works the crowd??

All i'm tryin to say is, no matter how you went about making your "demo" cd, you better be able to bring it!!! I really dont care how it was made, as long as it still is a true demonstration of your abilities!!!


well man...

#1 you can't master your levels...You can master the level of the entire mix but how are you going to change the levels during a mix?
The answer is...you can't...
And I'll tell you this much as well....I don't care how sick your tracks are...You better be able to mix....that's the key element to djing....whether it be slamming in mixes....3 minute layering...or just basic beatmatching...you better be able to perform...and trust me...if you suck...we WILL find out....and trust me....you will feel alot worse witha room full of people standing there wishing they had tomatoes to toss at you. :puppydog:

[robp]

well man...

#1 you can't master your levels...You can master the level of the entire mix but how are you going to change the levels during a mix?
The answer is...you can't...



-- arguable point.. i still think you could boost frequencies, boost levels, run a normalize function on the mix, whatever. theres ways to adjust levels post-recording.



And I'll tell you this much as well....I don't care how sick your tracks are...You better be able to mix....that's the key element to djing....whether it be slamming in mixes....3 minute layering...or just basic beatmatching...you better be able to perform...and trust me...if you suck...we WILL find out....and trust me....you will feel alot worse witha room full of people standing there wishing they had tomatoes to toss at you. :puppydog:

exactly. like i said, bottom line, a demo CD should be a TRUE demonstration of your abilities!

[2rip]

Very good arguments across the board. But is making a demo necessarily a test of skill? Do you all really have that much you have to prove?

I think the bottom line is coming out with something that's straight up enjoyable to listen to. If you have a lot of tricks up your sleeve that sound good in a mix then try to include them but essentially a good demo boils down to good music.

Of course not being able to mix is certainly a problem and if you have this problem you should not be making a mix for other people in the first place.

[cruXial]

Very good arguments across the board. But is making a demo necessarily a test of skill? Do you all really have that much you have to prove?

I think the bottom line is coming out with something that's straight up enjoyable to listen to. If you have a lot of tricks up your sleeve that sound good in a mix then try to include them but essentially a good demo boils down to good music.

Of course not being able to mix is certainly a problem and if you have this problem you should not be making a mix for other people in the first place.

good point. my first 3 cds were completely unedited, but ever since i made my hip hop demo, i have been editing my cds which i dont really consider demos anymore. i'm not completely sure if its cheating though, i mean nobody is taking a test here. i would consider cheating if your up in the booth of the club and your playing a pre-mixed cd or if youre using a beat counter. but its true that if you cant knock out a 60 min set in your own home without a train wreck, you should probably wait till you start handing off editied demos to the promoters.

[ufokidd]

Understand the live performance thing, but sounds like they put up a good show, at least the entertainment factor was there.

[djdavidmichael]

I master every mix that I put out....there is nothing wrong with improving the sound quality of a mix.
Actually it's better to record your mix completly in the green say around -2 or so and then increase the gain when it is finished...your mix will sound much more clean and you won't have to worry about clipping that way...
Also...

It is IMPOSSIBLE to adjust the your mixing levels....if you bring in a record too loud...then that's just what it's going to sound like in the mix...too loud...because if you adjust the volume of the frequency of a track while it s mixing with another track you will also adjust the track that you are mixing out of.....which will totally fuck up your mix....believe me...i've tried...LOL

It just depends on what you are doing....there is nothing wrong with putting out a mix that you have mixed 15 times to get perfect....that is the purpose of a demo.
I know that the mix for Proton that i just finished last week i had to redo a few times due to slips and stuff...who cares...

The point is is that it's easy as hell to fake a mix using traktor or ableton these days....but why would you want to do this...you will be discovered as a fraud...this is the way that things go...and I've got my box of tomatoes ready to throw. :bbjohnson:


-- arguable point.. i still think you could boost frequencies, boost levels, run a normalize function on the mix, whatever. theres ways to adjust levels post-recording.



exactly. like i said, bottom line, a demo CD should be a TRUE demonstration of your abilities!

[Matt Sanborn]

I do my mixes in 1 take.

so there

Im coolest.

:wink:

[TZEECH]

overheard some people in the vinyl section of my local, saying how they get the "perfect" mix.
by chopping up different "good" parts of their mixes and splicing them up together

isnt that classed as cheating?

i thought the idea was the process of it, not the result?



no it's not cheating!!!!

do you think greenday make an album in one take?!?!?!?!

when you make a studio mix to sell or give out you want to make it as good as the pro's.

do you think any of the major dj's mix in one take or even mix live there cd's?????

ANYWAY, it doesn't matter what there mix cd sounds like, can they mix live outside of ther bedroom????

'nuff said!!!

:bowtodaking:

[MAUSERMACHINE]

if youre still trainwrecking you shouldnt be putting out a demo

everybody wrecks. no matter who they are, or what they play,
its just natural. occasionally, your off. the best thing to do is just to feel your music.
get into it, start dancin even, get yourself into a groove. think, but do think as much.
if your worried about too many things when your recording, then your demo is going to lack. and dont forget, we do this because we love it, and its fun.

after a few years or so, your going to find out that..........there are no rules.
dont be confined by someone elses standards. blaze your own trail.
make your mix a mirror of YOUR personality. trying to sound like anyone other than yourself isnt going to do much for you. sure, you'll get a few gigs hre and there, but when you make your music a deffinition of yourself, then your going to go up and up, and impress every ear that listens.



M-


planetjacker-

[robp]

It just depends on what you are doing....there is nothing wrong with putting out a mix that you have mixed 15 times to get perfect....that is the purpose of a demo.
I know that the mix for Proton that i just finished last week i had to redo a few times due to slips and stuff...who cares...

The point is is that it's easy as hell to fake a mix using traktor or ableton these days....but why would you want to do this...you will be discovered as a fraud...this is the way that things go...and I've got my box of tomatoes ready to throw. :bbjohnson:

LOL

Security: so... what exactly is in that box and whats that smell
you: umm... rotten tomatoes? hehe

I think the original post was trying to ask whether it was cheating to record a live set, and if you mess up once 2/3 of the way through, instead of going back and re-recording the whole set, just chop the track before the fuckup during a breakdown or something (where theres no mixing going on). Then record another mix, starting with the track you stopped at, record to the end of the set, and then splice the two sets at that breakdown. I have heard plenty people discuss recording their mixes in this manner.

In this case, i don't see how thats any different than re-recording the whole mix. If youre really good with computers, this second way will take less time. if not, you're probably better off just re-recording the whole mix.

At no point was i trying to say that it would be just as good to use a software like traktor or ableton to match the beats for you and do the whole set for you... My point was more geared towards the situation described above. any beginning dj who's dumb enough to do that is asking for some serious embarasment (and rotten tomatoes in the face)

[john c]

robp has a very good point. If you are going to be 100% purist about anti-computer manipulation, then DONT normalize. Normalizing will make it seem like your levels were perfect throughout the whole mix. If you don't believe me, why don't you research what "normalizing" actually does to the sound spectrum.

Now, there's definitely good points coming from both sides. But the reality is that eventually, the art of beatmatching will fade. PC's are taking over, like it or not and live sequencing will slowly be the norm. Trust me on this. It might be hard to face at first but all the signs are there.

Here's what you have to realize though. Ableton livesets, ARE LIVE. You are actually copying and pasting loops in real time. You are bringing diff parts of diff songs in, however you wish. You are using filters live, and VST's etc. It takes an open mind but realize that its much more work than actually beatmatching. So yes, you lose the whole art of beatmatching, and phrasing, etc. But at the same time, you are working your ass off with new skills. Its hard for us to imagine sice beatmatching is like a right of passage for a DJ but this is gonna be our new reality.

Eventually people will be desensitised to computer dj programs. And so who will the promoters book? The DJs who have perfect mixes, combining diff loops of diff songs that weren't possible before? You could take loops from 5 diff songs and play them at the same time with ease. Or the ordinary DJ? Prob the guy who evolved. KInda sad but also maybe its the kind of innovation we need, the next level of DJ-ing/Live PAs.

Ultimately, your livesets will reflect if people want to see you. So I wouldnt get all bent out of shape on what a guy does on his home pc. Maybe he can or can't reproduce it. His live performance will show you what he's got.
And that is my rant for the day.

[psion's gate]

because it's cheating.

deal with it.

this is a really funny topic considering what happened at transit last week.



I was thinking that same thing. :blah:

I think this whole editing thing is weak. DJs need to come back down to Earth and have fun experimenting with their tracks on the dancefloor. DJing is a LIVE art. It is about DANCING.

I only even have cds of my djing because so many of my friends have asked for one. Any mix gets old after a few listens anyways.

It's all about that new hot shit that no one has heard yet, and some dude up there who makes that shit do things.

Let's put it this way. I'm all about going to jazz/blues clubs. I like the music and the vibe. If clubs like that just played cds all night, I wouldn't go. I'd be bored. If they had a band and they played everything on laptops. I'd be PISSED...and leave. But, if the band played live instruments, and jammed it out, I'd be all OVER it.

Technology is like a highly volitile chemical reaction. It can be used for good, and it can be used for bad. Be careful how YOU use it.

[Matt Sanborn]

I just got Ableton Live 4

but it is for use in the studio not for djing.

[psion's gate]

so... are you telling me that everyone here gives out demo cd's that were recorded in one shot? What about the people that claim they aren't cheating because they arent using computers, but it took them 30 tries before they got a good clean 60 minute mix? What are the odds that this person is gonna play a set the next time as clean as his 30th attempt on a demo cd? What are the odds that he will be able to mix the same in a large club with strange acoustics and other people bothering him???




Mine was recorded in one take. All of my cds are. Every time I play out it is one take as well. I'm passed the point where I have to think about "fucking up" in a live environment. It's more a matter of "what can I do to push this music on these people". Djs gotta get their priorities straight.

Also, I never really figured out how to dj until I had played really loud on really loud speakers, with lots of people, and lots of distractions. That's part of the game. That's what opening/closing slots are for. That's how people get breaks in the industry. They get thrown into this club situation for the first time, and the ones who rock it come out on top.

[Bioteknik]

so... are you telling me that everyone here gives out demo cd's that were recorded in one shot? What about the people that claim they aren't cheating because they arent using computers, but it took them 30 tries before they got a good clean 60 minute mix? What are the odds that this person is gonna play a set the next time as clean as his 30th attempt on a demo cd? What are the odds that he will be able to mix the same in a large club with strange acoustics and other people bothering him???

From what a lot of you are saying, i would have to draw the conclusion that any form of mastering would be cheating, then, because otherwise it is not an ACTUAL representation of your DJ skills. any changes!!!!

Lets see... everyone's talking about beatmatching. but what about other stuff? for instance, levels? a couple people mentioned its OK to master the levels, but nothing else. HUH?? I can't tell you how many times i have heard a great set ruined because the DJ didn't know how to match his levels.

bottom line. you give out a demo cd. it should not just be a demonstration of your technical ability to beatmatch. it is a demonstration of your beatmatching, your mixing skills, your phrasing, your key-matching skills, whatever skills you may have,but MOST IMPORTANTLY, your choice in music! because isnt that the #1 reason for booking a DJ? because he plays GOOD MUSIC and works the crowd??

All i'm tryin to say is, no matter how you went about making your "demo" cd, you better be able to bring it!!! I really dont care how it was made, as long as it still is a true demonstration of your abilities!!!


aren't you the one that helped someone edit their mix. :thumbsup: at least that's the way I heard the story.

[Bioteknik]

I just got Ableton Live 4

but it is for use in the studio not for djing.

or making completely impossible to do with turntables mixes, loops over loops over loops etc... kind of shit.

[robp]

aren't you the one that helped someone edit their mix. :thumbsup: at least that's the way I heard the story.

I have helped people record, master, and duplicate their mixes. I think i know which particular one you are referring to :)
however i do not use a computer to do any of the beatmatching or to fix beat slips for them.

[Matt Sanborn]

or making completely impossible to do with turntables mixes, loops over loops over loops etc... kind of shit.


Yeah I dont really know all its features yet lol. Ken from East Coast Boogiemen told me to get it and rewire it in Logic.

[Bioteknik]

I have helped people record, master, and duplicate their mixes. I think i know which particular one you are referring to :)
however i do not use a computer to do any of the beatmatching or to fix beat slips for them.

yeah I was going to try and keep from posting anything about that drama.. just forget I said anything.

[Bioteknik]

robp has a very good point. If you are going to be 100% purist about anti-computer manipulation, then DONT normalize. Normalizing will make it seem like your levels were perfect throughout the whole mix. If you don't believe me, why don't you research what "normalizing" actually does to the sound spectrum.

.

hm.. normalizing doesn't really fix much at all, I've done it on ones that I had a song way to quiet and it doesn't really fix it.

[Matt Sanborn]

I dont use that normalize plug at all...if you record properly at about -5db or so and match your line levels while mixing (then boost it later=no clips, crisp sound) - there is no need to use normalize. It applies all kinds of crazy compression that ends up hurting more than it helps IMO.

[john c]

If one song is ridiculously quiet, then normalizing would bring the whole mix down as a result. Its not a great solution always. BUt you can always do mastering things that even out volume levels, or pull them up to right below 0db. Its all part of "mastering". For example, If you have "Hammer" something plugin for SoundForge, try the "master for 16-bit". It will spike all your EQ's to hit at 0Db exactly. Will sound loud and smooth for the most part.

[Matt Sanborn]

I dont master in Soundforge...most of those plugs are crap-o-la.

Use Wavelab.

[john c]

I was mentioning 1 example, this thread isnt "what soft. is best to master".
my point is, theres a very fine line between what people consider cheating.
I say who cares, let the live sets speak for themselves.

[Bioteknik]

I dont master in Soundforge...most of those plugs are crap-o-la.

Use Wavelab.

wavelab is much better, I've been left feeling like something was fudged if I do too much editing in soundforge.

[john c]

1 more thing: DJs spinnin Records = boring to look at too. Lets face it, DJs are not rockstars when it coems to performing. When they do try to perform we make fun of them for their "jesus poses".
It really is all about the music. When Sasha used Ableton at Fur, nobody cared, it was the same shit. DJ staring down at his console, doign some shit with his arms.

[Bioteknik]

yeah.. boring djs just sit there and do nothing.

[Skandar]

yeah.. boring djs just sit there and do nothing.

Yeah, I take shots and smoke cigarettes! Highly entertaining.

[Scorched Earth]

I record my mixes in one take.

Every single mix I have ever released was done in one take, perhaps remastered a bit to clean up the sound but not once have I edited out a trainwreck.

[spiggums]

yeah.. boring djs just sit there and do nothing.

I was gonna say... I've been accused of MANY things... but sitting there doing nothing while DJ'ing is not one of them :)

but then I see us as performers as well as people spinning records...

[john c]

just cause us crazy fools dance behind the decks, doesnt mean we r "entertaining" our audience LMAO

[spiggums]

just cause us crazy fools dance behind the decks, doesnt mean we r "entertaining" our audience LMAO

how bout when we're shouting obsenities at the crowd?

:wink:

[john c]

haha u win

[Agent Sunshine]

robp has a very good point. If you are going to be 100% purist about anti-computer manipulation, then DONT normalize. Normalizing will make it seem like your levels were perfect throughout the whole mix. If you don't believe me, why don't you research what "normalizing" actually does to the sound spectrum.

Sorry, what are you referring to here? Maybe your normalizing plugin also has a limiter or compressor built into it? When I normalize audio, it takes the loudest sound and brings it up to just below clipping, and brings up the rest of the sound in kind.

In regards to the rest of what you're saying, I absolutely agree that people should feel free to do whatever they like with recording, especially if they can reproduce it live, using records, software, whatever. My only objection is to people fronting like they can mix properly when they can't. Otherwise, there are no rules.

[DJ STEEVROCK]

I had to let this ride out for a minute after "the Ambigously Gay dj", "Daneilla Downs on Dick" and the rest of the band wagon got on my sack.

For the sake of being HONEST and keeping this art form of djing creative and entertaining I expressed my thoughts on this thread which I still standby. As a performer and dj I set my standards high. Plain and simple I dont put out CRAP!!! When Im at home djing I litterally come up with HUNDREDS of mixes and come up with new ideas everyday....some wrecks, some aight, and some that are just meant for the WORLD to hear. With that said, I would like to my point as to why I edit.

My mixes are still my mixes. I came up with them and I will and can recreate them LIVE with out a problem because I put together that same mix you hear on my demo. Not the computer, not the software, not anyone else!! The fact remains the same whether I chose to edit and put something better in place, I STILL CREATED THE MIX! and its doesnt change my skill level. Obiviously when I put out a demo, Ive just DEMONSTRATED that I can put a mix of music toghether. Like Cruxial mentioned "aint nobody taking a test here"The real test is when youre up in the booth. Im not stealing mixes or have the upper hand and making demos is definetly not live if youre in your bedroom. When you go watch your local bands lives do you want them to sound just like there CDs, NO you want them to sound better. I put mixes for the public to enjoy without flaws, discrepancies, or boring or medicro music and mixes.



As far as promoter booking djs goes....I recall getting booked for one place and a certain "Ambigously Gay dj" opening up for me. I didnt hear any complaints.

If you want to see me spin for a couple of hours and hear the same type of music on my demos then BOOK me. But if you want a demo from me its gonna be nothing less then perfect



Ed, DiDnT yOu KnOw ThAt Dj St*EE*vRoCk wAs ThE DoPeSt ThInG tO hIt TrAnCe SiNcE sUn*EE*L?

And Im also glad to hear people know the style of music I play because Ive neve heard what Daniella Downs on Dick plays.


My two pennies


Your Boy the one only

DJ STEEVROCK

[crisis]

I consider that cheating, unless you are giving out the CD just for listening purposes (like all thoe Global Underground CD's). But if you are making a demo CD to get booked then I don't think it is fair to be splicing up mixes.

[Bioteknik]

all I have to say, is if your skills are so great, why need to edit mixes?

that pretty sums it up for me. I've heard you talk the talk, but if you were as good as you say you were, you wouldn't need to edit a mix to make it worthy of sharing with the rest of the world.

[john c]

i sense this thread's about to get ugly
<hides>

[Bioteknik]

like it didn't earlier?

[john c]

What about DL-ing famous dj's sets from soulseek, and renaming them as your own.
Is that bad?

[Skandar]

What about DL-ing famous dj's sets from soulseek, and renaming them as your own.
Is that bad?

:haha:














:ontome:

[DJ STEEVROCK]

What about DL-ing famous dj's sets from soulseek, and renaming them as your own.
Is that bad?

Dude stop giving all my secrets away!

[spiggums]

As far as promoter booking djs goes....I recall getting booked for one place and a certain "Ambigously Gay dj" opening up for me. I didnt hear any complaints.


uhh sugar...

when you play the closing slot on a weekday night...

the person before you isn't usually considered "opening for you"... you'll also notice the billing for that night... generally speaking I don't get worked up about billing... but when an assclown gets ideas above his place it's worth pointing out...

but hey... whatever works for you...

mind you... no one's really commenting directly on your skills... I remember little of what you played that night outside of the fact that it was trance of some sort... at which point I tune out and don't pay attention to jack shit... the simple fact is respected DJs and promoters from the area have commented in this thread (emphasis on the promoter side as well) and have pointed out that they disagree with you...

[spiggums]

What about DL-ing famous dj's sets from soulseek, and renaming them as your own.
Is that bad?

my "ex-best friend" (as I like to call him) used to DJ...

he dated this woman that I was friends with...

and she was playing a CD in a car with me that he gave her... saying he mixed it for her...

it sounded waaaaay too good technically to be him...

I asked to borrow it... hit it up on CDDB... it was a Judge Jules disc...

I couldn't believe someone would ACTUALLY do that...

[jibboo]

my "ex-best friend" (as I like to call him) used to DJ...

he dated this woman that I was friends with...

and she was playing a CD in a car with me that he gave her... saying he mixed it for her...

it sounded waaaaay too good technically to be him...

I asked to borrow it... hit it up on CDDB... it was a Judge Jules disc...

I couldn't believe someone would ACTUALLY do that...
thanks for the advice. now i just need to find my "demo", dl it, and burn a bunch of copies. this plan is gonna land me so much ass.

[john c]

word. new all we need is a thread for who has dibs on which famous sets so we don't pick the same one
LMAO
:D

[Bioteknik]

uhh sugar...

when you play the closing slot on a weekday night...

the person before you isn't usually considered "opening for you"... you'll also notice the billing for that night... generally speaking I don't get worked up about billing... but when an assclown gets ideas above his place it's worth pointing out...

but hey... whatever works for you...

mind you... no one's really commenting directly on your skills... I remember little of what you played that night outside of the fact that it was trance of some sort... at which point I tune out and don't pay attention to jack shit... the simple fact is respected DJs and promoters from the area have commented in this thread (emphasis on the promoter side as well) and have pointed out that they disagree with you...

so is he talking about transit?

[spiggums]

so is he talking about transit?

yes...

<a href="http://buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44351&highlight=Spiggy">we played the same night at Transit last October</a>

[: ORI :]

I think the original post was trying to ask whether it was cheating to record a live set, and if you mess up once 2/3 of the way through, instead of going back and re-recording the whole set, just chop the track before the fuckup during a breakdown or something (where theres no mixing going on). Then record another mix, starting with the track you stopped at, record to the end of the set, and then splice the two sets at that breakdown. I have heard plenty people discuss recording their mixes in this manner.

In this case, i don't see how thats any different than re-recording the whole mix. If youre really good with computers, this second way will take less time. if not, you're probably better off just re-recording the whole mix.


Good point.

Seriously...if a DJ starting out gets booked with a demo they hacked up, then proceed to sound like ass behind the decks....they probably wont be getting booked again for a while wherever they are. On the flip side....I have heard plenty of superstar DJs have absolutely horrible nights, but that doesnt stop them from getting booked again. Yeah..it can be considered cheating but honestly i wouldnt give a fuck if the person can deliver in the end. :shrug:

[beth]

yes...

<a href="http://buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44351&highlight=Spiggy">we played the same night at Transit last October</a>


hahahaha you 'opened' for him at transit. yeah, OK. seems ilke most the crowd leaves around midnight - 1ish, becuase it is on a wednesday.. and the last DJ is stuck spinning for a much smaller crowd.

[Bioteknik]

that's like saying that because you closed the main room, the headliner was opening up for you.

[Matt Sanborn]

that's like saying that because you closed the main room, the headliner was opening up for you.


Cool! So Scott Henry and Feelgood opened up for me in the main room

HOT!

I knew I could do it someday....

[Skandar]

I opened for everyone last night :crying2:

[Buddafly]

I opened for everyone last night :crying2:

that sounds so dirty.

[2rip]

sounds like he has a second job

[Skandar]

Actually, it's my first job.

[DeAtHmOnGeR bEaR]

sounds like he has a second job
"You pick up this working girl who's hooked on smack..."

/random

[mojojones]

i don't consider mastering cheating, nothing wrong with giving a better sound quality to your mix, I use compression and mastering on my mixes all the time

also i don't think splitting a mix in 2 parts is cheating either, I used to do it all the time back in the day when I made mix tapes (mix tapes, remember those) ;)

1 take for Side A, another take for Side B, nothing worng with that, but anything more than that is too much i think

just my 2 cents

[breakfiend]

i leave for a few days, and come back to a rollercoaster.

the point i was trying to make on the opening statement was if a dj has more thought put towards the result than the process, then they lose all of the vibe of being a dj, that "oooo what can i play into that/ what can i tinker with feelin"

if i was gonna do just chop and paste i might as well not even USE the decks.

HEADF*CK it, lets just bring a laptop with windows media player!

[ao125]

So...like, um... if I buy a bunch of records and pay someone else to mix them, is that still cheating?

[romy]

So...like, um... if I buy a bunch of records and pay someone else to mix them, is that still cheating?

Its not if u taught that person how to mix.....:bowasian: lol

[ao125]

Well, Spiggy was the one that taught me how to mix, so I suppose if I start making mixes for him, then that would be ok.

[spiggums]

Well, Spiggy was the one that taught me how to mix, so I suppose if I start making mixes for him, then that would be ok.
[11:28] spiggums: haha
[11:28] spiggums: hot
[11:29] spiggums: from now on
[11:29] spiggums: I'm just handing you a stack of records
[11:29] spiggums: and saying "mix this for me"
[11:29] ao125: protege and bitch are not synonyms
[11:30] spiggums: hah

[2rip]

"You pick up this working girl who's hooked on smack..."

/random

one night they find you on the street in your skivvies trying to sell your shoes. :)

[/random x 2]

but pLuR anyway

[Scorched Earth]

Well, Spiggy was the one that taught me how to mix, so I suppose if I start making mixes for him, then that would be ok.

Since Spiggy is very capable, that means you had a good teacher.

If you want to be his bitch, thats your prerogrative though. :D

[djdavidmichael]

Steve #1 you play trance so that automatically makes YOUR shit gay...
Period.

If you play Trance and call someone else gay then you have serious problems.



#2
When you close the night....Unless you are playing the 12-2 slot....NOONE IS OPENING FOR YOU
Don't be a jerk off.

#3
Your dj name is Steve Rock.....Come on man...how fucking weak is that...
I'm changing my name to Dave Pebble

#4
You edit your mixes....the actual mixing??
Fuckin Cheater

#5 Read #'s1-4 again 5 times and reevaluate your life

[Cortex]

lol damn David you're a harsh one.

on a different note, i can't recall the last time a thread in this forum got so many responses. everyone loves controversy!

[djdavidmichael]

I'm just having fun!
I've been drinking already today

[empath]

There's nothing wrong with editing a mix if you're making it for listening or handing out to clubbers.

Just don't give it to promoters and claim that's what you can do live.

People are doing live sets now mixing on computers, what's the difference?

[spiggums]

There's nothing wrong with editing a mix if your making it for listening.

Just don't give it to promoters and claim that's what you can do live.

that's kinda in line with what I was ssaying... but my point was that it should somehow be pointed out tht this is what you did, since I feel, by nature, we assume that someone handing us a CD of music actually mixed this and is showing us wht they're capable of!

[empath]

Every commercial mix cd you buy is mixed digitally. That's what you're 'competing' against, and that's the kind of quality people expect (unless the CD says 'mixed live').

[Jay Selway]

Steve #1 you play trance so that automatically makes YOUR shit gay...
Period.

If you play Trance and call someone else gay then you have serious problems.



#2
When you close the night....Unless you are playing the 12-2 slot....NOONE IS OPENING FOR YOU
Don't be a jerk off.

#3
Your dj name is Steve Rock.....Come on man...how fucking weak is that...
I'm changing my name to Dave Pebble

#4
You edit your mixes....the actual mixing??
Fuckin Cheater

#5 Read #'s1-4 again 5 times and reevaluate your life

http://www.guu.nu/pix/images/charstud/pixel_supergreg1066825575.gif

[djdavidmichael]

So you guys are telling me it's not ok to take someone else's mix adn put my name on it and send it out as my own????
What's the world coming to...how am I ever gonna get booked now!!!

LOL

[djdavidmichael]

Oh...and Cyzum...I was just kidding!!!
LOL
;)

[zartan]

ok so if i am mixing a set and fuck up the mix into the tenth record after nailing the first 9, stop the recording, put the prior record back on, start again, mix again into the tenth, nail it, and continue on to the end, it is "cheating" to edit out the fuck-up and use the second try on the mix from 9-10, but it would not be cheating to sit there and play the whole mix 50 times until i get it right?

i tend to undersatnd the argument against this - and particularly if you're going in and literally cutting out phrases and things - but I don't see how its anymore cheating to do what I describe than it is to practice or do 100 takes.

[empath]

BINGO

I'm too lazy to re-record shit.

[uberclkgtr]

ok so if i am mixing a set and fuck up the mix into the tenth record after nailing the first 9, stop the recording, put the prior record back on, start again, mix again into the tenth, nail it, and continue on to the end, it is "cheating" to edit out the fuck-up and use the second try on the mix from 9-10, but it would not be cheating to sit there and play the whole mix 50 times until i get it right?

i tend to undersatnd the argument against this - and particularly if you're going in and literally cutting out phrases and things - but I don't see how its anymore cheating to do what I describe than it is to practice or do 100 takes.

hmm, good point. the bottom line is to be honest about your mix CD and back it up with skills behind the decks when you get booked. :yes:

[2rip]

yeah i'm definitely agreeing with zartan... the days of re-recording 100x are way over. now back when i wasn't as good at mixing it was good practice to start from the beginning but if you know what you are doing and can back it up, there's nothing wrong with editing. i think that's the bottom line here.

now obviously there are some people who need to touch up on their skills a bit, in which case - practice makes perfect. heed the words newbies.

[robp]

threads like these is why the 150 post limit sucks... u finally get a good long on-topic discussion in this forum... and it gets shut down

[Joe L.]

I still enjoy a good mix cd that you can tell is mixed live..... if there are no major slips and only a few lil twists and turns which are only audible on close inspection it's fine..... I use to have that problem about being super super OCD about any mix I put out. But I can understand the point of getting close to the end of a mix and if you fuck up not wanting to re-record the whole first half out of laziness. I like to try and do them in one take though, cuz I'll get frustrated and not even want to bother recording again if I don't get it down in one take lol.

[empath]

my last two cds i recorded in one take... the only edits on the last one i did were to shorten a couple of the tracks because i was listening to them and got bored, lol...

[uberclkgtr]

I still enjoy a good mix cd that you can tell is mixed live..... if there are no major slips and only a few lil twists and turns which are only audible on close inspection it's fine..... I use to have that problem about being super super OCD about any mix I put out. But I can understand the point of getting close to the end of a mix and if you fuck up not wanting to re-record the whole first half out of laziness. I like to try and do them in one take though, cuz I'll get frustrated and not even want to bother recording again if I don't get it down in one take lol.

agreed. if i screw up a mix on the first take, i take it as a sign from god that this mix was not meant to be and try again, usually with a different track selection or doing some things differently. doing the *exact* same thing over and over is boring as hell.

[Joe L.]

doing the *exact* same thing over and over is boring as hell.


EXACTLY!! I don't know how some guys can sit there and do take after take on the same mix till they get it right

[empath]

My best mix cds have been a result of me getting in a nice set of records and really loving them and wanting to listen to them on cd...

my worst are when i'm like 'man, i really should make a cd' and go through my records and try to force something together..

[uberclkgtr]

of course i'm sitting here having recorded my latest demo 5 times, in 5 different iterations of track selection (with all but a handful of tracks remaining the same, but different orders), and now just this morning while on the decks before work, having a revelation and deciding to change most of the tracks and the overall tone/order of things. we'll see how a recording of it goes this weekend. with my luck/skills, it will probably take several takes to get this new version right. lol. =)

[uberclkgtr]

My best mix cds have been a result of me getting in a nice set of records and really loving them and wanting to listen to them on cd...

my worst are when i'm like 'man, i really should make a cd' and go through my records and try to force something together..

there's something to be said for that! often when you shop for a bunch of records on a particular day, you're in a particular mood and grooving on a particular sound, so subconsciously, you're picking out records that would go well together in a set. :yes:

[Mitaic]

of course i'm sitting here having recorded my latest demo 5 times, in 5 different iterations of track selection (with all but a handful of tracks remaining the same, but different orders), and now just this morning while on the decks before work, having a revelation and deciding to change most of the tracks and the overall tone/order of things. we'll see how a recording of it goes this weekend. with my luck/skills, it will probably take several takes to get this new version right. lol. =)

sour yogurt anyone! :bowtodaking:

[Liftedtrance]

My best mix cds have been a result of me getting in a nice set of records and really loving them and wanting to listen to them on cd...

my worst are when i'm like 'man, i really should make a cd' and go through my records and try to force something together..

i know exactly what you mean. i'm the same way. granted i've never really made any mix cds to give away b/c i suck at mixing, but just in reference to mixing in general.

somtimes i see it as a chore almost and its like its forced and not really that good, but other times i have the attitude of, "you know, i'm just gonna play some records that i want to listen to, and maybe not even mix them if i don't feel like it" and those are the sessions that tend to come out sounding more natural and quite a bit better

[uberclkgtr]

btw, i like sets that are recorded live at parties best, esp if you can hear the hootin' and hollerin' in the background. :breakdance:

[zartan]

i think the key is that if you're representing yourself inaccurately, that's bullshit. l ike if you need to record every mix 5 times until you get it "right." or if you're recording the separate records and litertally layering them over each other in soundforge or whatever. but i don't see the difference between re-taking one or two mixes and choosing the best one vs. just re-recording the whole demo, which obviously isn't cheating.

personally i can only stand to hear the same record like a dozen or so times before i get sick of it and start feeling it sucks, so i have very limited capacity to re-record demos...

[RAMIRO]

personally i can only stand to hear the same record like a dozen or so times before i get sick of it and start feeling it sucks, so i have very limited capacity to re-record demos...


Give crew will laught when i say this..

SPACE MANEUVERS

[spiggums]

btw, i like sets that are recorded live at parties best, esp if you can hear the hootin' and hollerin' in the background. :breakdance:

of course getting it set up so you can hear the crowd is something that isn't as easy for us local jocks to pull off ;)

so for me that's not even really an option since I don't buy mix CDs unless there's soemthing VERY special about them...

[spiggums]

Well, Spiggy was the one that taught me how to mix, so I suppose if I start making mixes for him, then that would be ok.

you know this actually gave me an interesting "concept mix" idea... (granted, I tend to look at all the mixes I do at home as "concepts"... like the most recent is supposed to be like "hey... look... I aint no one trick pony" or something)

take some of us who play very different sounds...

each of us select say 30 of our records and give them to another to see what they come up with out of them...

[deejayclutch]

It depends. If the DJ/Artist wants a perfect mix and doesn't care how he gets it, then why the hell not?

If the DJ/Artist tries to say he did it in one shot and he's the greatest, then he becomes a tool.


So, its all about the goal. If he hands out the mix and says to promoters, this is how I sound, and they book him and then he really sucks, cause he could never pull that type of mix off, he is a retard and a tool once again.

If he hands it out as simply a mix, and when asked explains why it sounds so good, then he is doing what he wants to do and there is nothing wrong with that.


SO...................................................

It's all about how you present it, yourself, and how honest you are with others and most importantly with yourself.

There is no such thing as right and wrong, no such thing as should, or should not, no such thing as cheating.

Don’t' let anyone tell you what you are allowed to do. Do your thing any way you want BUT be prepared to explain possible why you do what you do "Cause It Is The Cool Thing To Do" is not very cool IMO. If you try and deceive people with a doctored up mix, and lie about it, be prepared for the consequences.


That's the way that I see things.

-Camille

[deejayclutch]

PS: There are DEMO CD's and then there are just plain CD's.

There is a difference.

[empath]

IMO, the best DEMO CD's are ones that say:

DJ Whoever, Recorded Live @ Where-ever.

Then you know for sure what's up.

[ao125]

IMO, the best DEMO CD's are ones that say:

DJ Whoever, Recorded Live @ Where-ever.

Then you know for sure what's up.

Amazingly enough the best cds also say "House Mix" on them too ;)

[John Hyperion]

If you know how to mix, it doesn't matter. If you don't know how to mix, it doesn't matter as long as you don't try to bring your non-mixing ass out to clubs (unfortunately, I've seen this actually happen a couple of times).

[midas]

it is cheating, no question.

[stjarna]

It is definitely cheating to chop, edit and splice a DJ mix if you are trying to get booked to spin vinyl live at a gig. For every DJ that does that there are more that are more experienced and don't do it. The ones that don't are going to be better live.

[djane]

overheard some people in the vinyl section of my local, saying how they get the "perfect" mix.
by chopping up different "good" parts of their mixes and splicing them up together

isnt that classed as cheating?

i thought the idea was the process of it, not the result?

well obviously it's not the perfect mix if you have to edit it

[ao125]

When I make a new mix, I like to simulate as close as possible club conditions - namely I chain smoke and get kinda drunk - and I keep doing that till something passable comes out from it... because THAT is definitely what everyone is going to get when they book me... a chain smoking, drunk, asshole, house dj.

[Scorched Earth]

If you know how to mix, it doesn't matter. If you don't know how to mix, it doesn't matter as long as you don't try to bring your non-mixing ass out to clubs (unfortunately, I've seen this actually happen a couple of times).

I've seen it happen way too many times.

A certain DJ from Toronto (who shall remain nameless) talked bigtime and acted like a hot shot. His mixes were all clean and tight. Then I saw the fucker play and was shaking my head wondering how on earth he developed the attitude he had. It was trainwreck after trainwreck...

He just managed to fool people by editing CDs to make himself sound competent.

I can't stand it when people do that because you know there are a hundred other people out there who CAN mix and deserve the spot on stage that much more.

[ufokidd]

Steve #1 you play trance so that automatically makes YOUR shit gay...
Period.

If you play Trance and call someone else gay then you have serious problems.



#2
When you close the night....Unless you are playing the 12-2 slot....NOONE IS OPENING FOR YOU
Don't be a jerk off.

#3
Your dj name is Steve Rock.....Come on man...how fucking weak is that...
I'm changing my name to Dave Pebble

#4
You edit your mixes....the actual mixing??
Fuckin Cheater

#5 Read #'s1-4 again 5 times and reevaluate your life


The cruelty of honesty... :buttkick:

[midas]

When I make a new mix, I like to simulate as close as possible club conditions - namely I chain smoke and get kinda drunk - and I keep doing that till something passable comes out from it... because THAT is definitely what everyone is going to get when they book me... a chain smoking, drunk, asshole, house dj. lol unless you follow this protocol down to a t, you are definitly cheating.

[Matt Sanborn]

ok time to close.