will digital downloads bring death to d+b?

[Bounce]

d+b arena just started selling digital downloads for like 2.5 bucks a single....so if people keep moving this way......record makers drop outta the league and artists get paid less...labels start dropping they get paid less....what will we do?

[MURAMASA]

Digital does not = vinyl. It's cool to have access to songs you wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, but there are always going to be DJs who have that higher level of standard for sound quality that will keep record pressers in business (although not as many if this keeps up, unfortunately).

I don't think this would be the end of D&B though, I think the worst impact would be on the vinyl pressers... if anything, it makes D&B more accessible and might help to boost the strength of the D&B scene. (I hope, anyway.)


On a semi-related note... piracy sucks.:thumbsdown:

[Liftedtrance]

i think Muramasa is right on.

analog is better than digital. but i don't really know how close a very high quality download comes to analog. maybe they are getting these things so good that the difference will be unnoticeable to even the most trained ear in a few years. idk

but i do know that there is a growing group of ppl in the world that want more Dnb, but arent djs. they want dnb singles on cd format and want legal downloads. they seem to be getting really frustarted at how long the industry is taking to hear their call and to do something about it.

so i think this kinda stuff is a good thing for the most part, but at the same time could have some negative consequences.

i'm a big fan of vinyl and i hate to see anything that might jeopordize the future of it. so idk.... but as far as downloads possibly bringing in the death of drum and bass, i REALLY don't see that happening.

[Signal]

vinyl is becoming a fading medium unfortunately, with the introduction of cd turntables and final scratch etc. its been pretty much a feedback loop effect within dnb..its just becoming way harder for dnb labels to pick up distribution, or finance the process of releasing vinyl tracks themselves (particularly with the fact that the returns on owning a label are almost slim to none). so of course a lot of people who want to be involved in the release process feel the need to find alternative means...there is a huge sample of talented but unheard bedroom producers out there. its easy to say yeah, the mp3 market is killing the music industry, but really it has both positive and negative points. honestly i dont know what to think, id rather people at least release cd's of new tunes, (even tho theres gonna be some track rippin going on), and mp3s are just way too easy to share on p2p's...but what can you do...

but yeah, vinyl is great, the way tracks sound on vinyl are distinctly warmer then digital. its a sad fact that pressing plants all around the world are shutting down and going bankrupt, which has dramatically affected the dnb community over the last 2 or so years.

[obsol33t]

^^Yea, you do gotta keep in mind the closely creeping death of vinyl. If anything, that's what to look at , it will effect every EDM scene in some way or another.

on a side note, this is the shittiest smiley ive ever seen ---> http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsdown.gif

[decoy]

well, as long as I'm around, there'll be a market for vinyl.


although, I have found out analog -> MP3 isn't as easy as one might think.

[IKA'IKA]

Vinyl is in a SEROIUS crisis right now, it is rapidly becoming a lost art

[SIXTO]

it is... Sasha (not dnb) is using Live to play out... they say this is the future... a laptop and a keyboard... Playing records is awesome but technology is moving fast

[emoney]

well i think vinyl will be around a lot longer in DNB than most scenes becasue DNB Djs seem the most stuck up about keeping everything on vinyl and avoiding the switch to digital.

personally, i like vinyl, and i buy stuff on vinyl even when i can get it on CD for 1/5 the price and be able to play it immediately. i have CDJs and an okay amount of digital songs that i've bought. I still hardly carry my CDs around to gigs because I don't particularly like playing CDs. vinyl is just more fun.

but i have no problem with CDs. first, in smalelr scenes, they've really rejuvenated the scenes because producers are able to bring more up front sounds to their gigs without having to lose a ton of money and time pressing vinyl. taht's a big plus.

Plus, if ANYONE tells you that the switch to digital is making producers lose money, they're just... wrong. sure, they might lose money on vinyl sales. But unless you're a big label it's next to impossible to make a lot of money on vinyl. a friend of mine runs a small label--if he presses 750 copies and sells all of them, he still loses money. how is that an argumetn for vinyl?????

producers who go digital and ditch vinyl (as much as that breaks my heart) will lose less money. the costs of getting music out via digital download is SO much less than pressing vinyl. producers can put out more tracks at no more cost, and make more money off of each sale since they don't have to incur the costs of getting vinyl pressed, shipped around and distributed to vendors. digital downloads, and even selling CDs, is a way to lose less money and for producers. and buyers get music immediately, faster than getting vinyl pressed, and can play tunes out right away.

labels will be hit, as they stay in limbo between dying vinyl and growing digital use. which sucks. i like vinyl and i dont' want it to die.

but i like music more more than vinyl. and if digital downloads give producers a way to put out more music, cheaper, and make more money, than that outweighs the bonus of having music under my finger tips instead of in a cd player.

plus, some of the arguments about vinyl sounding better than digital are a little misguided. a lot of music is made primarily with DIGITAL prodcution methods, like software. that means it's all 1s and 0s. putting it onto vinyl isn't going to improve the quality of those 1s and 0s. and as far as the really high and low frequencies you get with analog but miss with diigital and CDs, well--they're basically inaudbile.

if you're at a club and someone plays a 192kbps mp3 i really doubt you can hear the difference, especially since the systems at clubs are so damn loud, often muddy, and more often busted.

i lvoe vinyl and still buy it. i don't want it to die. but i've accepted that it might. it is kinda silly to make digital music using digital instruments and methods, then putting it on vinyl and playing it manually. i enjoy doing it, but it's still kind of silly.

my (not going to happen) favorite result would be for the best tracks to get pressed to vinyl, andthe labels and producers to make money. and everythign else sold digitally for cheap :)

[proximity]

no.

[kirk]

if anything is going to kill dnb it will be arrogance and overpriced booking costs...


not downloads


cd's didn't kill anything did they?

[MURAMASA]

if anything is going to kill dnb it will be arrogance and overpriced booking costs...


not downloads


cd's didn't kill anything did they?


Interesting that you say that... I can't name 5 dnb djs that make more than $1,000 per gig in the US.


I'm not being an ass though, by all means, enlighten me.:shrug:

[kirk]

Interesting that you say that... I can't name 5 dnb djs that make more than $1,000 per gig in the US.


I'm not being an ass though, by all means, enlighten me.:shrug:



interesting. i must be out of the loop then.



carry on

:rockon:

[MURAMASA]

Not at all, I may be the one out of the loop. I'm just curious. :)

[Shinin*Sta]

it's not like your average music-listener was ever very prone to go out and buy vinyl. it's always been primarily djs and collectors buying up the vinyl *well at least since the invention of cassette tapes*
personally, i can't stand it when you go to a bar/club and the dj thinks they can get away with running most of their set off of cd decks or mp3s - it's lame and any good dj knows that. yeah, you can sample and drop a track here and there, but you gotta have the vinyl.

[emoney]

it's not like your average music-listener was ever very prone to go out and buy vinyl. it's always been primarily djs and collectors buying up the vinyl *well at least since the invention of cassette tapes*
personally, i can't stand it when you go to a bar/club and the dj thinks they can get away with running most of their set off of cd decks or mp3s - it's lame and any good dj knows that. yeah, you can sample and drop a track here and there, but you gotta have the vinyl.

i think you ought to own the track. otherwise, i dont give a fuck how you play the tune. i'm there for the music, not the medium (and no, in this case the medium is not the message... err music. sorry mcluhan fans!). i know people who buy vinyl, immediately record it to a cd, and play cds. then they dont have to worry about lugging around plastic discs anywhere they play. if you paid for it, fair game as to how you play it. that goes for digital downloads too.

[RickyRicardo]

a distribution medium can't kill a genre...that's ridiculous. Especially when you consider that 90% of the vinyl sales go to DJ's, anyway. D&B hasn't supported itself for the last 15 years on simply selling vinyl to other DJ's....if anything, that is probably the least profitable source of income for the artists. The real money comes from the tours, the licensing, the compilation CD's, etc....

..and definitly don't give into the illusion that the labels somehow support the artists, allowing them to live off the money that they make from their record sales. Especially in dance music, that is the rare exception rather than the rule (why do you think the first thing so many dnb artists do is start their own label?). If anything, going digital will do more to help the artists than hurt them b/c the medium is so easily produceable and distributable that labels become wholly unneccessary.

[Winterman]

I.M.O. Mp3s are what brought D&B to where it is right now. The ability for the music to travel to the US from overseas was all due to this medium. Regular listeners have large appetites for music now, going across many genres. There are still no good listening stations at Best Buy and many other stores, so ppl want to just get the music for free and hear the whole advance copy. The next step to making a profit off of the legal sale of the music in Mp3 format is to put them on a Mp3 retail site with full [low quality] previews.

Djs will always like vinyl dominantly, or at least a format that is more difficult to mix than the average joe can use. But listeners, especially with the re-invention of the walkman [ipod etc.] will want digital format music so they don't have to spend hours ripping it from CD. Easier is better, more CD players that resemble record players will come out, and eventually vinyl will be replaced. Vinyl and CDs contribute a lot to the bad state at landfills, and the processes they are made by pollute the environment greatly, they will eventually have to die...

The biggest problem I have with digital downloads is that the price does not reflect the reduction in production costs. Music is still being sold for unfair prices online, even though the labels don't have to pay distribution and packaging costs on albums. I know that it costs a lot to build a web site, I make them, but Itunes has already reached record sales, so that profit will pay the debt off, and then some. Out of all of this, artists, that MAKE the music, still make pennies or less, or if they are established artists, possibly dimes off a 1$ per song deal. Thats why independent labels will come up to the forefront.

Another problem is the copy protection that tries to circumvent a person from using the song on more than one device is wack, anyone can run a wave editor, record the track from a line-out or use microphones to re-record the track anyway. Musicians will never sell as many units as they used to unless they develop phony "beef" campaigns or unless they win American Idol. But the music will still survive, because musicians are all silly dreamers that like loosing money....http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/icons/badteeth.gif

[quantum]

good arguments all around, my question is why would the use of digital medium kill the dnb scene, but not all the other forms of EDM? dont give dubplate culture THAT much credit.

[obsol33t]

What i wonder is, once vinyl stops being produced entirely, will DJs be primarily using CD decks (CDJs), a new gen of hybrided vinyl/CD decks, or serato/final scratch? Will turntables/carts/styli even be produced anymore? Will turntablists become endangered and eventually go extinct once every last peice of vinyl on earth is cueburned and worn to shit? Thinking about it makes me want to cry.

[decoy]

well, as long as there is a market for something, it will always be produced :shrug:

[Spanish Fly]

Music is evolutinary, which is to say like everything else in the world, if you dont evolve you will go extinct. Drum and Bass will always be around in some way shape of form.

[RickyRicardo]

well, as long as there is a market for something, it will always be produced :shrug:

That's not always true...i point you in the direction of electric cars (not hybrids) and generic AIDS medication...

I think what you mean is if a target market is profitable enough to warrent production, then production will only continue as long as the profitability is there. In the case of vinyl, as more pressing plants close down, sales of CD-J's go up, and the costs associated w/ pushing vinyl into the stores also steadily increase, there will be a tipping point where vinyl, as a whole, becomes an unprofitable distribution medium and will eventually phase itself out, regardless of how many DJ's swear by its superiority.

I'm sure there are people out there that still love their 8-tracks, but you won't see the new 50-cent getting released like that.

[Simon]

You guys should really take a few days and read "The Future Of Music- Manifesto for the Digital Revolution" By David Kusek (Inventor of MIDI) and Gerd Leonhard, both professors @ Berklee...

Will open your eyes to the reality of whats to come. The Music Industry is about to get a HUGE makeover, Like it or not.

[Simon]

Existing CD pricing Model (approximate)

Artist 8%
Label 49%
Manufacturing 8%
Shipping 5%
Retailer 30%

[Milkman John]

Existing CD pricing Model (approximate)

Artist 8%
Label 49%
Manufacturing 8%
Shipping 5%
Retailer 30%

much better than a few years back when the artist was lucky to get 1-5%

[Simon]

Artists supposedly make thier money off of tour dates, licencing, films, advertising etc. not the albums themselves.

Also, just fyi I guess but, In the US, a statutory mechanical royalty fee (currently 8.5 cents) is paid to the writers and thier publishers for every song on each CD that is sold, weather or not the writer is the artist or not. In europe, this fee is a fixed perctage of the published price-per-dealer (PPD), which usually adds up to be a slightly higher amount.

[Cakes]

a distribution medium can't kill a genre...that's ridiculous. Especially when you consider that 90% of the vinyl sales go to DJ's, anyway. D&B hasn't supported itself for the last 15 years on simply selling vinyl to other DJ's....if anything, that is probably the least profitable source of income for the artists. The real money comes from the tours, the licensing, the compilation CD's, etc....

..and definitly don't give into the illusion that the labels somehow support the artists, allowing them to live off the money that they make from their record sales. Especially in dance music, that is the rare exception rather than the rule (why do you think the first thing so many dnb artists do is start their own label?). If anything, going digital will do more to help the artists than hurt them b/c the medium is so easily produceable and distributable that labels become wholly unneccessary.

Thank you! Glad to see not everyone is so reactionary.

As much as I would live to see vinyl continue to thrive I know it's on the outs as the preferred medium.

Now, for the people who whine about less money making it to the artists I think that's a bunch of nonsense. The amount of money needed to recoup on pressing is hardly insignificant, and when you factor in the price the distributors get the vinyl at from labels without a p&d deal I'm surpised the fewer selling artists see any money at all (actually some don't). So you see between label and distro there are two separate levels at which an artist can get the proverbial shaft. Several underground artists out there like Alpha Omega, ASC, and Mykra have started offering unreleased material for direct purchase, a move which I wholeheartedly welcome. Guys like that would never get heard if not for putting their tracks to CDR or selling MP3s direct from their sites. As the scope of many d&b listeners and in turn the distributors narrows, that is what it takes for these guys to get their music out. ...By any means necessary....

As for more organzied MP3 distribution, www.strictly-digital.com is one of the last avenues I have left for getting bunches of new and/or unreleased atmospheric/deep d&b tunes. While Good Looking went liquid and distros remain scared to touch an upstart like Camino Blue, I've become a firm believer in SD (set up by Nookie and his friend Gary late last year). In their case they've managed to use the success of their MP3 based site to generate interest in limited vinyl pressings. They even coupled it up with a live (monthly?) event (http://www.strictly-digital.com/articles/article.asp?id=39) to further generate interest where they had AI, Nookie, and Big Bud headlining. And in this case MP3 sales have directly resulted in the ATMOSPHERE CHAPTER 1 SAMPLER (http://www.strictly-digital.com/articles/article.asp?id=36).

Personally I'd like to see both mediums co-exist. Flight seemed to get the balance right when I saw her at Red last year, pulling CDs and 12"s at her leisure and blending it all perfectly. I'm seeing a lot more of it done properly. The only unfortunate aspect of it is adding the $500+ for a CD player to your current DJ setup. Then again that gets offset by the cost of all the dubs we would have been cutting 3-4 years ago anyway.

Yes, dubs sound better. But I'll take it how I can get it.

[Simon]

This is happening across the board- I don't speak drum & bass specific, cause its not my speciality.

The Record Industry as we know it is dying, but the music industry is healthier and more vibrant than ever, with limitless possibilities for change and growth due to the internet and the digitization of music. The record business is not the music business. There will likely be a large shift in the future to buy artist direct more often than not. Artists and thier managers will shape the future. Not the labels (esp the Majors)

[BrianArsenault]

... i dont give a fuck how you play the tune. i'm there for the music, not the medium (and no, in this case the medium is not the message... err music.


yea... it amuses me how the d&b crowd is always stuck on being so UPFRONT and now now now about everything but everyone is crying about vinyl going out of style. i love my vinyl like the rest of you but if something else comes along that allows me to manipulate a song in a similar fashion i'll give it a shot. new toys are fun, even if they're way out of my price range.

and there's no arguing with how fast new material can get out there via cds/mp3 vs records. i'd rather hear someone play an all new tune 100% cdj set than mostly vinyl tracks i might already own. i still cling to my argument that the people who are cd naysayers are the ones who know little to nothing about mixing them. it isn't just button pushing. AND, if you couldn't see the dj at all, like he was locked away in a closet or something, would you REALLY know what medium he was using? i doubt it.

sorry i got a little long winded there.

[DJ-Heist]

I love my vinyl, just the other day i baught a CDJ800 , and to be honest, i still think and know vinyl will always be best... it sorta like driving a manuel transmission ( you know 5 speed stick shift ) , and then switching to automatic , when you actually feel the vinyl , and control it yourself , its all you want , dont get me wrong the CDJ is a cool toy.... but what can i say , I'm a serious Vinyl Pusher....

[Busy Child]

i noticed someone mention artists getting paid less with digital compared to vinyl?

Im not sure about that because after pressing and all the other marketing costs, how much does an artist get paid per vinyl anyway?