Pushing the envelope?

[The Logic Theorist]

As a DJ (or live PA I guess) what, if anything, do you do to push yourself forward during gigs? Or do you? Do you just show up, play records, and go, or do you do things to progress as an artist and push your show further? Even your demos?

Do you think that having the newest records in your genre, particularly unreleased tunes and dubplates is pushing the envelope?

Playing a new or underrepresented genre?

Pushing for longer and tighter mixes in key?

Adding multimedia elements to your stage show?

Turntable tricks?

What?

I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious if this is even important to DJs, to what level it matters and how much work people are willing to put in. I'm genuinely curious how many people in the scene here get to a certain level and are content to stay there. Not making any judgements on anyone who does or doesn't do any of these things, or even which elements carry more value than others either, so nobody get your panties in a wad :shady:

Discuss.

[uberclkgtr]

i've been trying to use acapellas lately. and not just spoken word vocals, but in-key melodic stuff with no beat over the top of a beat-driven track. it takes some planning beforehand, but it can be really nice. almost like playing a remix made on the fly, except not really on the fly. =)

i wish i knew some turntable tricks. =(

[The Logic Theorist]

I used to do a lot of stuff with accapellas as well. I'd hunt down dirty south rap accapellas cause they're usually 65bpms and go perfect over breaks. I've got probably a whole bag of just rap records with accs on them to use, some of which I will be breaking back out again soon :wink:

[munchkin821]

you should always evolve

[DJ STEEVROCK]

Sup Theorist, (Skandars boy Steven)
Im speaking on behave of trying to keep people interested and focused on the music dj/producer

As far as hip hop goes.....

at parties or clubs, people tend to overlook or not appreciate new or exclusive tracks. But on mixtapes and demos, thats the first thing I look for and I think I can safely speak for the general public as well. Scratching and tricks(not as much) are the most in hip hop especially at parties or clubs. Regular beat matching and mixing tends to kill the groove and the mood. IMO hip hop is fasted pace and requires tons new atributes to keep shit going. IMO you cant just let a whole hip hop track play til the very end (unless its extremely good) You have to cut, scratch, or mix that track at the right time.

As far as EDM.....

EDM hasnt been in the eyes of the general public to long. So I would experiment with new sounds and effects anyway that you can. Whether its an effects machine, laptop, or just me doing it manually I always add a new sound, cut, scratch, or effect to my EDM music. Theres too many djs out that just mix tracks together and feel thats thats what EDM is all about. IMO I like to keep my EDM crate fresh with hott unreleased tracks. EDM tracks get played out as quick as they come. Not to mention that top DJ have been playing them out even before theyve been released for purchase. EDM has so much potiental especially with all the technology these days. Thats the advantage it has over any other music genre. So dont sleep and like mention above EVOLVE and seperate your self from the masses!!!

[the sex molesters]

i always push myself. sometimes i think i push myself too much, and i believe that's why many people don't appreciate me as a dj, or a producer for that matter. when i play records out, i always try to add in tricks and techniques that i haven't done before or that i find challenging to perform if i have done them. when i don't try to push the envelope (filter... lol), my mixing is usually flawless. but i try to push it so much that i end up screwing up and dissappointing people. in terms of my production, i always feel like i'm never going to be "appreciated in my time." my productions are, for the most part, very left-field, and i'm always trying to do the thing that hasn't been done before. many of your average club-goers probably wouldn't even be interested in my productions.... too avant garde, too pretentious, too minimal, whatever.... and if not that, then the opposite -- too fast, too violent, too angry.

so i would say in conclusion that i definitely push the envelope. and i always hold out hope that my pushing myself will eventually overcome my reputation (whatever than may be) as a relatively new dj/ producer, and that when i get the bookings, when i play the parties, and when i release the records, that it will be phenomenal.

[Matt Sanborn]

I like to push it push it

[Tha Dj Glyphix]

Push it good! lmao 2nd track on my last mix was a techno rmx of that. Only on racetrax of coarse lmao.

[the sex molesters]

"pushing the envelope" made me think of envelope filters. then, subsequently, flangers and phaser effects...

[shade]

i spin topless.



but i charge extra.

[The Logic Theorist]

You'd have to pay me to see that.

And I'd charge extra.

[Tha Dj Glyphix]

Yea seriously. I think the only way I could push my musical envelope right now is to start getting more focused on production. I have been messing with a few trax for along enough time allready. I am just still not all that satisfied with them yet. As for djing I think any1 who can can mix and do trick's and all that shit. I meen really if you don't have some amazing trax, and you just put 2 and 2 or should I say 1 and 2 together then you aren't doing much. There have been many times where I see this and am like oh no. But it all depends on your set up and if you are somewhat familliar with it. Instead of fucking up my set which I and many others have done before I really just want to get through with out a hitch. Production is mainly where it's at, but if you can dj as well then you will be ever so popular within the music buisness as a whole. And I just want to state that in fact I feel mixing is a great part in which the dj plays as well of coarse. My mixing is generally mids and lows and ocasionally highs. But I mix pretty much through half of the record. Some people like long mixes like myself and others prefer short 1's. I think those should be left for hip-hop mixes though. As I try and get as much of a rmx out of my trax as possible without it sounding too much like I am. If that makes sense. But if you can be good at making something people havn't allready heard and it sounds good then that is a wonderfull thing, if the clubs like it of coarse. :bowasian:

[shade]

You'd have to pay me to see that.

And I'd charge extra.

zing!

lol.

[MURAMASA]

YES! I started using the flanger with my Champion Sound remixes. No Joke. Sometimes I even use it when mixing into Twist Em Out.:catalyst:


Seriously though, good topic, Phill. I think a lot of people don't mean to stop, they just get caught up 'focusing on one thing' (beatmatching, EQing, or having the newest tunes for example) without realizing how adaptable they really are, and that we can learn to do several things at a time. I think this causes one to get burnt out on DJing because it becomes repititious, so they wind up slacking, which ultimately leads to a very slow advance in their development and a great deal of frustration.

Personally? I'm trying to learn more about scratching, trying to act and dress a little crazier when playing out, practice on a variety of different setups, organize a smoother flow to my sets (combining synths, keys, drum styles, etc),promote myself more in and out of the DC area, follow new producers and new sounds (within the dnb field, don't get your hopes up :P), get more practice time in, learn more about production, etc.

:thumbsup:

[retail]

+long, in key, mixes
+bringing pieces of tracks in and out from earlier in my set, or snippets of tracks to come (not mind-blowing, i know)
+not necessarily the newest tracks, but tracks that come out under the radar, that sound good & fresh and still might get a "wtf was THAT?!!!? :raveon:"
+cutting - and schlitz has shown me that even bedroom DJs can scratch :catalyst:
+like james said - accapellas

anyways - since I still spin primarily for an audience of one on my humble numark matrix 3 mixer, that is how I am pushing myself :ANden::lame::cheer:

[Dj a.m.p.]

As a DJ (or live PA I guess) what, if anything, do you do to push yourself forward during gigs? Or do you? Do you just show up, play records, and go, or do you do things to progress as an artist and push your show further? Even your demos?

Do you think that having the newest records in your genre, particularly unreleased tunes and dubplates is pushing the envelope?

Playing a new or underrepresented genre?

Pushing for longer and tighter mixes in key?

Adding multimedia elements to your stage show?

Turntable tricks?

What?

I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious if this is even important to DJs, to what level it matters and how much work people are willing to put in. I'm genuinely curious how many people in the scene here get to a certain level and are content to stay there. Not making any judgements on anyone who does or doesn't do any of these things, or even which elements carry more value than others either, so nobody get your panties in a wad :shady:

Discuss.

Word. Having the newest track has become a cancer upon the "dj" society. The drum and bass scene relies heavily on this right now in my opinion, but all genre's seem to be infected.

I dont believe what tracks you have make you a dj. Anyone can "spin" records, and considering that no track is exclusive (unless self-porduced) anyone can spin the same records.

But to me, being a "dj" is about style, what makes you unique. Not what tracks you have, but what you do with them, when and where you spin them, what you mix them with...

Spinning has become a fad. Only those that have true passion for the music "they" create instead of the person's name on the record, are truely a "dj"

50,000 people who spin records in MD, maybe 100 djs.

amp

[DJ STEEVROCK]

Yea seriously. I think the only way I could push my musical envelope right now is to start getting more focused on production. :bowasian:

Couldnt agree with you more!


Tiesto once said: "Superstar Djs have to make Superstar records."
(please keep the hate to a minimum)

[DJ MetaBoliK]

In response to the 1st post......

I suppose pushing the envelope would entail going beyond what one would expect from a talented DJ or integrating a more creative and expirimental focus on their musical progression in general. If that is the case, I would have to say that I have found a niche for doing just that. Within the EDM capacity, I have developed a true affinity for the Progressive genre. I hope to find more and more tunez to select from this year than last, and still be able to use those ones which gained more pertinent recognition.

As I am also a mobile disc jockey, I have performed at over 200 local private, public, and formal events, primarily serving as resident DJ at the Blue Water Grille in Centreville, Va. Our capactity is 300 or so people, with an age variance of 21 - mid-50s. Can't say much for the ownership's knowledge of "meeting customer demands," but I have experienced a much different atmosphere within the mobile capacity.

However, there are many similarities between the 2 facets: EDM DJing and Mobile DJing. In order to have a successful gig, one must develop a "mental awareness" of what they should expect from their audience, no matter what genre, sub-genre, etc. the format calls for. From a management standpoint, "pushing the envelope" for some DJs may be quite difficult, not to mention mentally frustrating for a DJ that means to contribute to everyone's success. Lots of times the owners of these establishments will place restrictions upon DJs that are simply not able to overcome the BS demands of lesser intelligent minds. In other words, these owners are only concerned with the money that's going into their bank account versus what creative talent you would utilize to facilitate even greater results. Many of these people are poor communicators from the start.

So, I feel that an independent approach to your own destiny will prove that you can only push your own envelope, and soon enough people will understand.

:atpc:
Just another PSA from the MBK

[kirk]

spending more time mxing properly and less time just mixing for the sake of mixing.


i've noticed that i've gotten into a habit at hjome where i just mix records as long as possible.


considering the nature of dnb (especially the super edited stuff) certain tracks just sound better if mixed in out in fewer bars...

other than that its been working in the studio and getting back to the basics of simply having fun.

[The Logic Theorist]

But to me, being a "dj" is about style, what makes you unique. Not what tracks you have, but what you do with them, when and where you spin them, what you mix them with...


Couldn't agree with you more on this. I'm never worried about telling people what tracks I've got, hell half the time I'm using tracks that are 20 years old. I've always said I could give any DJ my whole bag of records and they still wouldn't sound like me.

For my part, to answer my own question, I'm constantly trying to learn new tricks and new ways of making the track "mine" be it scratching, juggling, layering other tracks with it, "remixing" it by using the track and several different versions of it to make something new, whatever. I'm honestly trying to find more people who have a similar taste in music as me and a desire to push their skill level so I can start doing multiple turntable sets with them.. but so far nobody's really stepped up.

[Dj a.m.p.]

Couldn't agree with you more on this. I'm never worried about telling people what tracks I've got, hell half the time I'm using tracks that are 20 years old. I've always said I could give any DJ my whole bag of records and they still wouldn't sound like me.

For my part, to answer my own question, I'm constantly trying to learn new tricks and new ways of making the track "mine" be it scratching, juggling, layering other tracks with it, "remixing" it by using the track and several different versions of it to make something new, whatever. I'm honestly trying to find more people who have a similar taste in music as me and a desire to push their skill level so I can start doing multiple turntable sets with them.. but so far nobody's really stepped up.

Word. I'd expect no less from a "delivery" constant. Holla!

[2rip]

in the past i've made it a point to add hip hop tricks to my sets no matter what i was spinning. this gave me a lead as far as differentiating myself but let's face it... buying 2 of each record takes what would normally be a $300 record bill to about $500 (assuming that i haven't bought 2 of EVERY record)

lately i've decided to be more selective about what i buy and who i buy from. i'm now showing more support for labels and artists who produce "my sound" as opposed to buying stuff that is simply good music. i think that's helping me to progress my sound to exactly what i want to be and weeding out stuff that is going to collect dust. efficiency is key.

i do wish i had more time to focus on technical fader tricks and scratches however i'm confident with the skills i've already developed. once i start rocking out i can easily go nuts with being technical... however there's still more ways i can develop in that dynamic.

[uberclkgtr]

I like to push it push it

i heard you like to move it move it.

[DJ STEEVROCK]

For my part, to answer my own question, I'm constantly trying to learn new tricks and new ways of making the track "mine" be it scratching, juggling, layering other tracks with it, "remixing" it by using the track and several different versions of it to make something new, whatever. I'm honestly trying to find more people who have a similar taste in music as me and a desire to push their skill level so I can start doing multiple turntable sets with them.. but so far nobody's really stepped up.


See heres the problems. Some people are just being selfish on thread....me me me.... Djing is an art for the masses to appreciate. If you just want to develope your own sound, go into producing not djing.


Theres a small fraction (very small) of people who really appreciate scratching and TT tricks. There are some classix tracks that everyone should have in their crate. But playing with old records isnt necessarily pushing the evelope or innovative. Like puffy for example. Hes a sampling machine but is never appreciated because hes brings nothing new to the table. New sounds always spark creativtiy and imagination.


Djing is so much more than just the dj. There is not just one thing or trick that you do thats gonna seperate you from the masses. When the dj figures out all the components and attributes of djing,( your audience, technical aspects, music selections, your musical vision, style etc...) thats when innovations come in and takes over.








Producer Kashid's book: Everything you need to know about the music business".
"Music is like buying an airplane, You have to know how to work all the instruments before you can FLY"

Neptunes:
"while producers are busy sampling records from back in the day, we're busy listening and learning from the new tracks of today".

DJ Tiesto (#1 Dj in the world)
"Superstar djs, have to make super star records"

Joe Dirt:
"keep on keepin on"

Just food for thought :fudd:

[Castiel]

i personally think that having new tracks to spin is fairly important but i don't htink you have to have a set entirely made up of brand tracks/white labels. i think as long as you mess about with djing long enough your original sound will come out. no matter how you do it..turntable tricks, mixing thru diff genres, throwing in brand new tracks or old favorites..as long as you do it all from the heart it'll come thru and make you sound good/talented/original...ie like you are pushing the envelope.

[Random]

I've always wanted to do something different as a dnb dj, though most of it has been done at some point in time. At first it was just taking a style (old skool, atmospheric, ragga, etc.) and going strictly with the beatmatching and phrasing. Then I started working on set progressions, and realized that my real passion was in trying to put all of the different styles of dnb I had accumulated together. Even then I still felt that it was all about beatmatching and set progression (which are still the two most basic necessary elements for a good EDM dj). I've since started messing with sampling and cutting of various other types of music (jazz, 70's, 80's, rock, a little bit of hiphop) and then trying to figure out how to transition smoothly between all styles of electronic music I have (slow atmospheric that goes with breaks or house, a few breaks on flipsides of records, AphexTwin, Squarepusher, Portishead, etc.), while incorporating all of the music that I have, love to play, and want to share. It's been a rough ride, but I love a challenge. I want to be that dj that sounds completely different from anything you've seen live before when I play for you, and that passion won't ever leave me at any point I can foresee.
But above all else, DnB is still king of my passion to play... I just feel I need to add a little spice so I don't become just another face in the crowd.
Also, I haven't a single track that was released in the past year at least, so no I don't think it's important for a DJ to have all the "new hot shit." Play your style and work with what you have--if your style is to play the new shit, then by all means go for it. That's just not my style is all.
Keep working and striving and practicing... Once a DJ gets comfortable and thinks they have it all down is when they start to stagnate. Remember: You could always get better.

[ManofWar]

To elevate my mixes I always think about the dancefloor. I mix long when needed and I mix quicker if the track needs it. The one thing I think that builds the most energy and excitement in a mix, is the programming. The sound of the 2 perfect tracks blending together with the proper EQing and FX/Fader tricks during the mix, that is pure EDM djing. Putting their hands in the air while mixing the tracks, and not in some huge trance breakdown, does it for me on the floor, or in the booth.

All dj's wanna improve thier sets. No dj's will say they have done the best they can. Getting better is the fun. Thats what is great about all musicians. We'd do it for free!

[BrianH]

I want to keep evolving my set progression... ya know take people on a "journey". Too few DJs are doing that these days it seems. Although, my next mix is going to be less journey-like. oh well.

[Liftedtrance]

i'm still learning so much, and i'm concentrating on that.

what i feel i'm doing to push the envelope, or at least get a start on it is
practicing my mixing
practicing my production
learning all the options made available to me by the wonders of technology!
giving thought to the studio i'm gonna have one day and all the schtuff i'm gonna put in it
checking out different genres and subgenres that i havent listened to as much and ones that aren't that popular and try to incorporate them with the ones i am more familiar with

i want to have a unique sound, so i work towards acheiving that goal.
i dont care if i'm using high tech or low tech means to achieve that goal, as long as it sounds good to me and has some uniqueness to it

i cant speak for genres other than DnB but i certainly dont think playing the newest shit is pushing the envelope b/c I see lots of new mixes with the "newest" tunes in them, and it seems like a lot of ppl are playing the same records. they're trying to differentiate themselves i guess, by playing the super new stuff, but apparently so many ppl have that same goal, that a lot of djs seems to be putting together mixes w/ the same dubplates and promos in them......... so in reality i dont think that playing a mix full of tunes that all the other djs are playing constitues pushing the envelope.

[Cortex]

screw pushing the envelope, i had my fill of that back when i was temping.

these days tho i've been spending a lot of time working on production.

[Senyo]

Keep puchin' on...

[joenice]

Keep puchin' on...
Senyo....good to see you on here.


As a DJ (or live PA I guess) what, if anything, do you do to push yourself forward during gigs? Or do you? Do you just show up, play records, and go, or do you do things to progress as an artist and push your show further? Even your demos?

Do you think that having the newest records in your genre, particularly unreleased tunes and dubplates is pushing the envelope?

Playing a new or underrepresented genre?

Pushing for longer and tighter mixes in key?

I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious if this is even important to DJs, to what level it matters and how much work people are willing to put in. I'm genuinely curious how many people in the scene here get to a certain level and are content to stay there. Not making any judgements on anyone who does or doesn't do any of these things, or even which elements carry more value than others either, so nobody get your panties in a wad :shady:

Discuss.

Phill...excellent topic. in my opinion, all of the above is pushing the envelope. for me, pushing my sound (dubstep) is what's most important. i have no problem with other djs playing dubstep, infact, i encourage it. When Kosta played Sonar about a month ago and half of his set was tunes that I was playing on dubplate a while back, that's when I knew what I was doing was right. When other people come up to you and say, "Hey Joe, why does he sound like you tonight?"....that's when you feel your efforts arent in vain and people are listening to what you play....they're listening to the radio shows. they're playing the cds in the car. they're following along w/the lyrics. i feel when you dont play what everyone else is playing and you believe in what you're doing, you're pushing the envelope. Demos...i havent done one in a year, yet every month, my radio show is recorded and cds are made. you never really hear the same mix twice and i try to not play the same tunes from last month. Pushing the envelope isnt about staying current, it's about being "out there". it's about not following someone else's path, it's about making your own.

tonight @ Shorty's, i'm doing a set w/a couple of members from the band Astralyte. Live instrumentation with dubstep....we'll see how it works. if it's crisp, we'll see if more shows can be done. if not, we'll move on.

Me and Daniella Downs (one of these days) are gonna finish Peas & Carrots. It's a mix of dubstep & breaks...all together on one cd. Some people in this thread know about "Baby Food" (the unfinished version of Peas & Carrots) and the feedback has been positive. I'm looking to do a show with a broken beat dj, but I still havent found what i'm looking for.


gotta be your own leader. if others follow, great...if not, that's cool too.

Take for example, the Live show from Sonar (http://www.gourmetbeats.com/mixes/live/joenice01.ram). Not only was there an energy in the room, but the beats were a sound that no one has really heard of around here....except by me. Mix in an MC who's flow is a bit different....people jump on it.

As a DJ, i can tell when another dj is into it...and when he/she is just playing records. I've heard one dj play a particular tune, then another dj will play the same tune and it sounds better.

I think about all these things when i play.....it's very important.


I'll leave you all with this....

Being a dj, isnt about having your own style, it's about having your own sound. Style is what you wear; sound is what you hear.


See you sunday phill. We might have to continue this discussion over a BlueMoon.....

[Senyo]

Hey guys, I'm BACK in chocolate city. Got teh job, got settle. Now I'm just waiting for Jam-2 to mail me my record bag, and shit can get rolling.

Joe, we need to hang out, SERIOUS. We gotta touch base, for real.

Phil, remember, we met in Boston while you were visiting. Dude, holler at ya boy.

[joenice]

Joe, we need to hang out, SERIOUS. We gotta touch base, for real.

Definitely, i've spoken to you before, but we've never met. If you're not too busy tomorrow, make the drive to Delivery @ Skylounge. (http://d10690.u25.bachcsi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53786)

It's a good time.

I'm not hard to get a hold of.



you know what i'm playing...dubstep. what on your decks now? 4/4? Speed garage?

[Senyo]

Oh, man, my spelling is abysmal. Dude I'd love to come up, but again, work has screwed me. we do need to keep in touch, holler at me on msn: djsenyo@hotmail.com.

[joenice]

we do need to keep in touch, holler at me on msn: djsenyo@hotmail.com.
Done.

[jibboo]

tonight @ Shorty's, i'm doing a set w/a couple of members from the band Astralyte. Live instrumentation with dubstep....we'll see how it works. if it's crisp, we'll see if more shows can be done. if not, we'll move on.


Being a dj, isnt about having your own style, it's about having your own sound. Style is what you wear; sound is what you hear.




there isn't really a category for it yet, but i think that a live band which incorportates a dj is the future of live music. when an edm dj/turntablist collides with a jam/fusion band, magikal things tend to happen. bands like sound tribe sector 9, the disco biscuits, particle, etc, and dj's/producers that remix these bands (logic, harry, bill laswell, etc.) were the sounds tha led me to edm in the first place. i'm just starting to develop a sound in my head for what i'd like to spin. and if you had to categorize it, i guess its jazzstep. but not just studio stuff. i've got a whole archive of live recordings that i'd i'm trying to figure out how to incorporate as well.

btw, i caught you're set at transit last night joe. seriously intelligent beats.

jb

[john c]

truly pushing the envelope: making your own tunes and loops and incorporating them live in your sets. Then truly nobody sounds like you. Also, while Im not against old tunes (if they work, they work), you can't deny that a DJ with the most upfrotn unreleases tunes has a big step above the guy who doesn't. Plus, most people can learn to spin and hammer out the big tunes and move a crowd eventually. Almost nobody can produce a tight ass tune. Thats my 2 cents.

[The Logic Theorist]

Almost nobody can produce a tight ass tune. Thats my 2 cents.

Anybody can make a good record, it's all about the amount of time you're willing to put into it, same as DJing.

[mouse]

what are djs?

[john c]

Anybody can make a good record, it's all about the amount of time you're willing to put into it, same as DJing.

Absolutely WRONG. Couldn't disagree with you more.
Usually people who say such things have no idea how to write music.

[The Logic Theorist]

Absolutely WRONG. Couldn't disagree with you more.
Usually people who say such things have no idea how to write music.

I'm a firm believer that anyone can learn to do anything.

Granted, the learning curve is a lot steeper for those who aren't naturally talented in some areas, but it can be done.

I notice you post a lot that DJing is easy and producers are some elite class, but really man, get off it. Both are a set of skills that can be taught.

BTW: Using scratching and turntablism I do just what you're suggesting, create my own patterns/loops/sounds and incorporate them into my sets. So, without ever touching a keyboard, sampler, sequencer, or anything of the sort, there's still no DJs who sound like me.

[ao125]

<h1>OMG MAKING TEH MUSIK IS ROKET SIENSE!!!!</h1>
<marquee><img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"> <img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"> <img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"> <img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"></marquee>

[john c]

I meant things like learning to Beatmatch and drop a record on a phrase, can be learned by anybody. Just like you could learn how to use Cubase or Reason with enough time.

Programming a set, pickign out tunes that work to tell a story can't be learned.
Similarly, writing a great track takes more than just learning software or synths, it takes talent.
You have to admit though, that many DJ's can get away with just playing the most popular tunes after learning to beatmatch and do fairly well in the scene, without being true talents. But how many songs actually get attention from local producers? Producing a pro-tune is infinitely harder than making a pro quality demo mix (not counting turntablism).

[john c]

<h1>OMG MAKING TEH MUSIK IS ROKET SIENSE!!!!</h1>
<marquee><img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"> <img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"> <img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"> <img src="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_rocket.gif"></marquee>

so is learning to spell apparantly.

[The Logic Theorist]

I meant things like learning to Beatmatch and drop a record on a phrase, can be learned by anybody. Just like you could learn how to use Cubase or Reason with enough time.

Programming a set, pickign out tunes that work to tell a story can't be learned.
Similarly, writing a great track takes more than just learning software or synths, it takes talent.
You have to admit though, that many DJ's can get away with just playing the most popular tunes after learning to beatmatch and do fairly well in the scene, without being true talents. But how many songs actually get attention from local producers? Producing a pro-tune is infinitely harder than making a pro quality demo mix (not counting turntablism).

I get your point now.. I still think that anyone can eventually learn the formulas and whatnot to making a tune that will get noticed. And yes, talent is a huge factor.

But the same way DJs can get away with playing the most popular tunes and do fairly well without being true talents, producers can exploit musical rules, formulas, samples and other popular tricks and do the same thing. Puff Daddy anyone?

And I would rather stab my eye out with a pencil than make a demo most of the time. It's a montrous pain in the ass. Just like you say the majority of tunes don't have "it", the majority of demos (I've run a lot of weeklies and have listened to an obscene number of demos) just don't have "it". So, I would say the difficulty in making a demo that stands the test of time and showcases true talent is of equal difficulty to making a tune.

So, yeah, we just have to agree to disagree here. I get and respect your point, I just don't agree with it.

[john c]

thats fine but until you produce, you really dont "get it", the amount of passion it takes to actually make a tune. the Avg joe shmoe cant simply make a tune with x amount of time, you have to have musical gifts imo. and im not implying I do, my music could be shite who knows. point is, theres a reason theres more djs than producers. I think many people say anyhting can be done, as a self defense mechanism. we can't all be good at something and you have to face the facts. anywayz we can agree to disagree and I respect your opinion.

PS: I think if I put infinite hours in turntablism, I WOULDNT be able to do it ever. I think it takes some sort of talent you can't learn.

[The Logic Theorist]

Well, I have actually dabbled in production, and I do know the proccess involved. I never got into it because it's just not exciting for me, I don't have that passion for it like you do. My passions lie elsewhere. But, that being said, I have actually completed one track that I thought was decent (although not groundbreaking) and have some partially completed breaks tracks that really turned some ears when I played them for people (other producers at that).

Anyway, main point of this post is that my saying anyone can learn to do anything isn't a defense mechanism, it's my way of empowering myself to learn things that are challenging or difficult.

[john c]

Just cause you were able to make a nice tune, doesnt mean everybody can ;)
And with that, time to leave work. Peace.

[joenice]

btw, i caught you're set at transit last night joe. seriously intelligent beats.

jb

hey man....thanks for the good words.
That last tune had everyone on its ear !!!!