trance/industrial/breaks/metal band!

[djmasamune]

Hey, I started a band. It's kinda hard to define but it's got breaks, ebm, industrial, trance, and some metal. We just made a website and we have all our tracks on there, so give 'em a listen and let me know what you think. We also would love to play some parties if there are any promoters.

this is the site (http://www.orinmusic.com)

[spiggums]

aside from the fact that I shouldn't be scared by a band that cites DJ Sammy as an influence in the same breath as saying there's elements of EBM/Industrial... cause, well... most "industrial music" for the last 5 years has been nothing but cheese trance with crap vocals... and yes, I'm a crotchety old opinionated fucker)...

I do have to point something out...

DJ Sammy did not write Heaven... it was a cover of an old Bryan Adams song...

I think the only more egregious an error someone could make in terms of citing what they were covering is if someone (and I'm sure someone HAS done this, I just haven't come across them... cause if I had, I'd punch them) covered "Blue Monday" and cited it as a cover of Orgy...

[SCHLiTZ]

eh, I can see where he's going though... it's more of a remix of the dj sammy track than a cover of the brian adams track...



btw, the cover of "don't fear the reaper" needs a bit more cowbell.

[djmasamune]

lol @ schlitz. and yeah, it's inspired by the dj sammy track (an attempt to fuse the candlelight mix and the original mix + our own spin), not brian adams but we'll give him some props to if it makes you feel better ^_^ We did that songs just because we wanted to be random. And yes, we need more cowbells ^_~@ spiggums: there is allot of shit music in every genre in existance in the past five years. Yeah, there is allot of cheese but there is allot thats good too. take a listen to vnv nation's 'future perfect' and tell me that sucks ... it dosn't. it blew my asshole apart. imperitive reactions 'redemption' is great ... the point is there is good stuff in genres and crap. Maybe more crap than not, but there is stuff that has really inspired me to make music. thats what counts.

[spiggums]

you're calling VNV Nation's Futureperfect "Good"?

Funny, that's one of the things I was thinking of when referencing cheese trance as industrial

[djmasamune]

if you don't think vnv nation is good, well then I ain't got nuttin ta say to ya.

[spiggums]

their music is formulaic at best...

I mean, shit... one of their songs (Saviour) is practically the exact same as a song by Darude (Feel the beat)!

DARUDE I SAY!

uber cheese... and with Ronan's pontificating... it's sad.. cause at one time they actually had promise... but they hit their stride with Praise the Fallen... and it's been nothing but downhill since...

there IS good stuff that comes out... it's just few and far between... and it's extremely rare that something comes out to the level of things like old 242 and Project Pitchfork (not even those two bands put out anything on the level of their old stuff... Pitchfork used to do some amazing things.. then after the hit or miss release that was Eon Eon they went to releasing pure crap)

[spiggums]

all that said... your site and music wasn't that bad... I just have a bit of a pet peeve with the whole covers and people not knowing where they're from, etc... so don't take all this as me being harsh or antyhing...

[ao125]

you're calling VNV Nation's Futureperfect "Good"?

Funny, that's one of the things I was thinking of when referencing cheese trance as industrial


BWAHAHAHAHA... Futureperfect is one of the most godawful pieces of shit EVER.

If They actually tried to innovate music instead of their lame-assed, paint-by-numbers approach, that is littered with access virus presets, I might give a shit. But if you are that easily amused I have some christmas lights you can untangle while stomping around like Donkey Kong.

[djmasamune]

their music is formulaic at best...

first off, I don't think it is. If it is, what forumla? I think vnv are amazing a sequencing Especially Beloved and Structure) and second, what electronic music nowadays isn't formulaic anyway? does being 'formulaic' automaticly mean it's bad? I don't think so. I listend to your mix, I thought it was really good, but it was pretty monotonous, and very formulaic. 99% of all dance music is 'forumulaic'. and what does that even mean? that the music follows a certain structure? Music itself follows formula based on what notes can go with one another based on key signatures.

that aside, I'm glad you think our music is worth listening to. ^_^ As dj, it's really nice to be able to actually play music live. it's a cool feeling. we also knew who originally did heaven. we wen't doing a cover of that version.

[empath]

I actually really really like vnv nation, lol..

[spiggums]

yeah but you also play cheesy epic trance!

[the sex molesters]

if you don't think vnv nation is good, well then I ain't got nuttin ta say to ya.

well bye, then. vnv sucks a cock, unless they're live.

[the sex molesters]

my music isn't very formulaic.

[the sex molesters]

skinny puppy isn't very formulaic. there's something you all can relate to.

[spiggums]

you did hear Skinny Puppy's last release right?

I mean... there mid-stuff was insane... Too Dark Park and Last Rites... both absolutely brilliant albums... oh and Cevin Key's stuff as download... absolutely intense!

but the stuff I heard from the last album sucks the cock

[the sex molesters]

i haven't heard the last album. maybe i won't bother now that you've told me that it sucks!

[spiggums]

there's a video out there for "protest" you should see it... it's actually pretty amusing... a bunch of goths having a street dance battle... but the music is like generic rap-metal... rather disappointing...

[the sex molesters]

i think i may have seen that. didn't even occur to me that it was skinny puppy.

[djmasamune]

their music is formulaic at best...

first off, I don't think it is. If it is, what forumla? I think vnv are amazing a sequencing Especially Beloved and Structure) and second, what electronic music nowadays isn't formulaic anyway? does being 'formulaic' automaticly mean it's bad? I don't think so. I listend to your mix, I thought it was really good, but it was pretty monotonous, and very formulaic. 99% of all dance music is 'forumulaic'. and what does that even mean? that the music follows a certain structure? Music itself follows formula based on what notes can go with one another based on key signatures.

that aside, I'm glad you think our music is worth listening to. ^_^ As dj, it's really nice to be able to actually play music live. it's a cool feeling. we also knew who originally did heaven. we wen't doing a cover of that version.

[ao125]

well bye, then. vnv sucks a cock, unless they're live.

Even bigger laugh... by "live" you mean, Ronan "singing" over a dvd.

[spiggums]

first off, I don't think it is. If it is, what forumla? I think vnv are amazing a sequencing Especially Beloved and Structure) and second, what electronic music nowadays isn't formulaic anyway? does being 'formulaic' automaticly mean it's bad? I don't think so. I listend to your mix, I thought it was really good, but it was pretty monotonous, and very formulaic. 99% of all dance music is 'forumulaic'. and what does that even mean? that the music follows a certain structure? Music itself follows formula based on what notes can go with one another based on key signatures.


dude... you were wrong the first time you posted this...

the fact that you posted it a second time doesn't change that fact...

[ao125]

This is what I mean by FORMULAIC.... anyone could make this crap with an ounce of intelligence and an access virus.


******** src="http://66.92.160.196/simronantemp/afraidofswords/index.html" height="500" width="500"></iframe>

[ninjagore]

This is what I mean by FORMULAIC.... anyone could make this crap with an ounce of intelligence and an access virus.


******** src="http://66.92.160.196/simronantemp/afraidofswords/index.html" height="500" width="500"></iframe>
That flash animation was made by Bogart from Epsilon Minus, poking fun at VNV. He wrote the song that goes with it, as well; that is not a VNV song, nor is it a VNV video, NOR does it have anything to do with either Mark or Ronan

you should get your facts straight before you talk shit about VNV, then put up this kind of flash animation.

[ao125]

That flash animation was made by Bogart from Epsilon Minus, poking fun at VNV. He wrote the song that goes with it, as well; that is not a VNV song, nor is it a VNV video, NOR does it have anything to do with either Mark or Ronan

you should get your facts straight before you talk shit about VNV, then put up this kind of flash animation.

I DO know the facts you fucktard.

I know the facts a lot better than you do as Bogart AND I put the SimRonan "situation" together.

Hell, I was fucking hosting the SimRonan site until we got tired of it. I was also running the "Eskil journal".

So keep on interjecting your baseless crap into the conversation.

[spiggums]

That flash animation was made by Bogart from Epsilon Minus, poking fun at VNV. He wrote the song that goes with it, as well; that is not a VNV song, nor is it a VNV video, NOR does it have anything to do with either Mark or Ronan

you should get your facts straight before you talk shit about VNV, then put up this kind of flash animation.


cause we didn't already know that???? Cause it wasn't obvious that it was a parody of VNV?

but that doesn't change the fact that it's FUNNY!

[spiggums]

I DO know the facts you fucktard.

I know the facts a lot better than you do as Bogart AND I put the SimRonan "situation" together.

Hell, I was fucking hosting the SimRonan site until we got tired of it. I was also running the "Eskil journal".

So keep on interjecting your baseless crap into the conversation.

man when you guys were going back and forth as Ronan and Eskil... that was some funny fucking shit...

pure internet comedy gold :)

[ninjagore]

Now now, no need for name calling. You made the comment about VNV being formulac, indicating that "anyone could make this crap with an ounce of intelligence and an access virus." And then playing the flash animation. That's not even a VNV song! Next time you make your flash animation, at least put an actual VNV song on it.

[ninjagore]

VNV hating or not, i'd have to say the flash animation IS quite hilarious.

[ao125]

Now now, no need for name calling. You made the comment about VNV being formulac, indicating that "anyone could make this crap with an ounce of intelligence and an access virus." And then playing the flash animation. That's not even a VNV song! Next time you make your flash animation, at least put an actual VNV song on it.

why use a vnv song? that defeats the purpose of parody and opens up the door to legal action. While bogart is in canada, I'm here in the good ole us-of-a and can be readily sued.

Also, if you listen to praise the fallen or advance and follow, bogart more than captured the essence of ronan thwapping his dick against the Virus preset buttons.

[the sex molesters]

that flash is hilarious.

[ninjagore]

Victory!!!! also vengance!!!! and sword!

[projecthaujobb]

you guys can call vnv's music formulaic and shitty, but in the end none of you can create music like that in the first place lol.....kinda funny.

[spiggums]

you guys can call vnv's music formulaic and shitty, but in the end none of you can create music like that in the first place lol.....kinda funny.

dear "projecthaujobb"

thank you for playing, but your argument is fucking weak.

love,
those with half a clue

[projecthaujobb]

dear "projecthaujobb"

thank you for playing, but your argument is fucking weak.

love,
those with half a clue


dear spiggums,

that was the fucking intent...you fucking moron.

weak, but true.....yeah? LOL

[spiggums]

true?

you're arguing that one has to be able to produce music to criticize music...

I've studied music for a long time, both recreationally and in a classroom environment... whether or not I've tried my hand at music production is completely irrelevant to the argument...

The fact of the matter is VNV make very formulaic trance music... you fucking dumbass goths like it because of those of us who forcefed it to you back when they showed promise (boy was I ever wrong on that one)... and, yes, I'll take my fair share of the blame for that...

I mean, take the best things that VNV Nation have done... and compare it to anything Daniel Meyer did when he was in his prime (think Freeze Frame to Solutions timeframe here...)... compare it to anything 242 did prior to this last release of theirs... think of anything Project Pitchfork did prior to like 96 or 97 (cause BOY did they hit a point where they turned the suck knob to "high" around Eon Eon)... then you'll see that the fact that VNV is the biggest thing the industrial scene has right now is incredibly sad...

[projecthaujobb]

true?

you're arguing that one has to be able to produce music to criticize music...

I've studied music for a long time, both recreationally and in a classroom environment... whether or not I've tried my hand at music production is completely irrelevant to the argument...

The fact of the matter is VNV make very formulaic trance music... you fucking dumbass goths like it because of those of us who forcefed it to you back when they showed promise (boy was I ever wrong on that one)... and, yes, I'll take my fair share of the blame for that...

I mean, take the best things that VNV Nation have done... and compare it to anything Daniel Meyer did when he was in his prime (think Freeze Frame to Solutions timeframe here...)... compare it to anything 242 did prior to this last release of theirs... think of anything Project Pitchfork did prior to like 96 or 97 (cause BOY did they hit a point where they turned the suck knob to "high" around Eon Eon)... then you'll see that the fact that VNV is the biggest thing the industrial scene has right now is incredibly sad...


first of all, im not a goth....sorry if my 'i hate ravers' motto offends you (yeah right)....i also hate goths, if that makes you any better.

there's no need to compare daniel myer with vnv cuz they are on two diff playing fields....ronan pretty much relies entirely on software to create his music...daniel myer is very anti-software.

i'll agree, it's not the best thing to have vnv as the biggest thing in the scene right now...but at least it's quality music.

[spiggums]

first of all, im not a goth....sorry if my 'i hate ravers' motto offends you (yeah right)....i also hate goths, if that makes you any better.

there's no need to compare daniel myer with vnv cuz they are on two diff playing fields....ronan pretty much relies entirely on software to create his music...daniel myer is very anti-software.

i'll agree, it's not the best thing to have vnv as the biggest thing in the scene right now...but at least it's quality music.

you obviously don't understand the definition of quality... but then... looking at your past posts on here... you don't seem to understand much at all...

[xgirl]

WHERE THE FUCK IS DARQUECHYLDE?!?!?!!???!?!?!

[projecthaujobb]

you obviously don't understand the definition of quality... but then... looking at your past posts on here... you don't seem to understand much at all...


you dumbfuck.....what defines good-quality music? your def of quality may be different than mine...its subjective.....you seem to be a little irritated, its ok spigcums, just tryin to have a friendly chat about the great vnv nation....the greatest music-makers of our generation.

[spiggums]

I KNEW it...

you're a troll... and I'm the dumbass who fed into it...

[projecthaujobb]

I KNEW it...

you're a troll... and I'm the dumbass who fed into it...


trolls.....gotta love 'em....you just played with the limited edition 'BUTTFUCKER' troll ....LOL hahahahaha.....signing out, Peace Love Unity Respect.

[spiggums]

WHERE THE FUCK IS DARQUECHYLDE?!?!?!!???!?!?!

last I heard Poppa Al violated the wrong "trash bag fatty" and acquired some shyphilitic disease that caused his genitalia to fall off... there was some lengthy surgery and he's been locked up in the hospital since so he can fully recover.

[the sex molesters]

you guys can call vnv's music formulaic and shitty, but in the end none of you can create music like that in the first place lol.....kinda funny.

you obviously haven't heard a damn thing i've produced. not to toot my own horn or anything.... but even my first remix (of beborn beton's "another world") outdid anything that vnv has put out. and that's honestly not saying much about about my production ability.

[the sex molesters]

you dumbfuck.....what defines good-quality music? your def of quality may be different than mine...its subjective.....you seem to be a little irritated, its ok spigcums, just tryin to have a friendly chat about the great vnv nation....the greatest music-makers of our generation.

that is absolutely the most laughable post i have ever read. "greatest music-makers of our generation"? for fuck's sake i can think of at least a dozen better musicians right off the top of my head. and that's just thinking about people who released albums in an EDM genre from the years 1998-2001.

[projecthaujobb]

you obviously haven't heard a damn thing i've produced. not to toot my own horn or anything.... but even my first remix (of beborn beton's "another world") outdid anything that vnv has put out. and that's honestly not saying much about about my production ability.


ok, i will listen and give an honest opinion of it......

[projecthaujobb]

that is absolutely the most laughable post i have ever read. "greatest music-makers of our generation"? for fuck's sake i can think of at least a dozen better musicians right off the top of my head. and that's just thinking about people who released albums in an EDM genre from the years 1998-2001.


im laughing at you right now.

[ao125]

I can't for the life of me figure out why this thread is still going on.

VNV's music is formulaic, because all you need to do is take four parts access virus, one part shitty vocals of stupid metaphors either battlefield (praise the fallen) or 1985 (futureperfect), and one part road-flares if you're going to do a live show, mix, and pour... instant pablum for goths and people who are easily amused by lame music.

[projecthaujobb]

you obviously haven't heard a damn thing i've produced. not to toot my own horn or anything.... but even my first remix (of beborn beton's "another world") outdid anything that vnv has put out. and that's honestly not saying much about about my production ability.

ok i heard your music @ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/djinergymusic.htm

umm lol, what the fuck are you smoking?......are you trying to compare that w/VNV ? no offense, but your music was very plain and boring, there's no depth to it, this is what i call poor-QUALITY music, nothing grabbed me by the balls......its not even listenable to when high....kinda sounds like something prodigy's retarded cousin would produce.

[djmasamune]

you obviously haven't heard a damn thing i've produced. not to toot my own horn or anything.... but even my first remix (of beborn beton's "another world") outdid anything that vnv has put out. and that's honestly not saying much about about my production ability.

I highly doubt that anything you have made even comes close to VNV. I listened to your music a couple of times, and it's just weak. It sounds like a bunch of stock loops (a couple I recognize from acid stock loops). It's progression is non-existant, has no energy, and is just plain boring. now I'm not claiming my music is the best by any means, but I don't have the audacity to claim that my music is better than anything. Let alone VNV Nation.

[the sex molesters]

haha i don't even own a peecee capable of running acid, much less use any of the loops included within. i'm guessing you haven't listened to my music either. since you obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[the sex molesters]

ok i heard your music @ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/djinergymusic.htm

umm lol, what the fuck are you smoking?......are you trying to compare that w/VNV ? no offense, but your music was very plain and boring, there's no depth to it, this is what i call poor-QUALITY music, nothing grabbed me by the balls......its not even listenable to when high....kinda sounds like something prodigy's retarded cousin would produce.

ok i'm sorry my music doesn't have vocals. because, you know, that's all that vnv really has going for them anyway. and of course, that's if you don't actually listen to what they're saying. because the vocals are absolutely inane. i really don't know how you can even accuse me of making "plain" music. considering how nobody and i mean NOBODY has made anything like it. ever. i'll admit it needs some tweaking. i'm working on that. i'm not about to claim that i'm the best producer ever or anything like that. but forreal. vnv ain't got shit on me. perhaps they might be wonderful compared to some other industrial/ ebm groups.... but is that really saying anything? fuck no. most of that crap sucks. bad.

[the sex molesters]

seriously, you can insult my musical ability all you want... it just proves to me that you really have horrible taste in music. because if you can like vnv and dislike my music, you're just fuckin' ignorant.

[djmasamune]

I listened to every one of your songs. I spent about 15-20 minutes listening to it, while my friends and room mates BEGGED me to stop. I scanned thru them all and listened to how they progress. They don't. They don't change hardly at all. Static and formulaic - vnv is waaaaay better. You may or may not have used stock loops, however they sounds like they are. Non-exciting and flat. The fact is that vnv nation has more thought, progression, and complexity, than you could hope to produce. Virtually every vnv nation song has multiple layers of string, bass, vocals and drums. If you listen closley, there are tons of layers to each sound. Your music dosn't. A simple beat with a less than inspired 'melody'.

anyway ... I like vnv nation. I think they have more depth and are more interesting than most edm that comes out. I can tell they take a long time with their songs and that they convey emotion with those songs. I feel that too much edm (anything progressive) is paint by numbers and sounds like it was done in ten minutes. Not every song has to be super complex, and not every song that is simple is bad. But saying that vnv is forumulaic while have the music you do (inergy and spiggs) in your signatures is insane. Your music is anything but revolutionary, and sure as nathen lane is gay, formulaic and cookie cutter. But I'm not saying thats a bad thing, Spiggs, ur set is awesome. I enjoyed it, but it's also forumulaic.

[the sex molesters]

hah ok. whatever. you're entitled to your opinion. but seriously, saying that vnv nation is the best edm out there? (you didn't say that, the other guy did) that's just absurd. completely absurd. anybody who believes that is a fucking moron.

[djmasamune]

I think that VNV Nation is one of the best in edm. Personally, I like the lyrics of assemblage 23 better, but I think vnv is especially strong in sequencing. I think there is allot of good edm out there, I love all edm. I just think that allot of it lacks thought and insight. And VNV is formulaic to a certain degree (as I think almost all music is ... especially with EDM) to hate 'em becuase of that? I think thats dumb. And whats so wrong with useing presets (i don't think they do)? Do you complain if someone used an acustic guitar with the factory sound? No. OMG! They used the stock distortion effect on the fx pedal!

that, or you could just say "I don't like it" - thats fine. But there is deffinet worth in the music.

[spiggums]

But I'm not saying thats a bad thing, Spiggs, ur set is awesome. I enjoyed it, but it's also forumulaic.

you're playing a semantics game here and either you know it or you're an idiot...

[djmasamune]

You say vnv bad because formulaic
I say VNV good, and all music formulaic
If you no like vnv because forumlaic, you no like edm because it all formulaic.

[spiggums]

You say vnv bad because formulaic
I say VNV good, and all music formulaic
If you no like vnv because forumlaic, you no like edm because it all formulaic.

the difference is this:
all music is "formulaic" because it follows certain structure guidelines within the realm of music theory
VNV is "formulaic" because it stands that if I do x + y + z I'm guaranteed a hit within the goth crowd.

to say that Tiefschwarz, Aphex Twin, Blackstrobe, Rex The Dog, or Kraftwerk (all acts I play on a fairly regular basis lately) are formulaic could be considered true in the first statement... but not in the second statement... all those acts push boundaries of what can be done within the realm of electronic dance music... VNV Nation doesn't come near that...

[djmasamune]

Aphex Twin is great, no doubt. But I think VNV Nation pushes boundries, and has inspired countless people to make music and to love music. I don't think the acts you mentioned are any more or less 'intelligent' than VNV. VNV has tons of different styles, uses different techniues, and there is a reason they are at the top of the EBM charts. They are good. Thats why. Maybe if instead of calling it industrial or ebm they called it 'intelligent ebm' you'd like it better.

[spiggums]

VNV Nation is Trance... not EBM... please do not confuse the two...

or "Futurepop" if you prefer... but all that is, is another word for "Poppy Trance"

and please... INTELLIGENT ebm... VNV? that's just funny....

[the sex molesters]

hahaha futurepop. a word invented by vnv, for vnv. lol.

[Biodigit]

You could probably consider me a fan of both genres per se. I've been listening to both equally for the longest time, maybe EBM bit longer. And I would say both genres pump out crap like any other genres would. But EDM completely surpasses EBM with the amount of junk that's being put out. Not only that, the biggest difference I have noticed is the consistency factor. You'd hear a track by somebody that will just blow you away, it will get you hooked, it will allow you to look forward to any future outputs by this artist. Next thing you know, the artist's new production is the biggest fucking dissapointment EVER! I mean it doesn't even remotely sound like (when I say sound like, I mean are they still talented enough to pump out great music. It doesn't matter, if they change their sound from progressive to dnb) their previous production. That has been my biggest gripe with this genre, there is lot of quantity (hundreds of tracks are released daily) but quality is merely non-existent.

[Biodigit]

....Forgot to mention one more thing. Anybody who thinks VNV is either "Formulaic" or "Cheese Trance", you either don't know shit about this type of music OR....it's just that, this particular brand of music is not your cup of tea anymore.

[spiggums]

the hell you say... I still listen to plenty of stuff that comes out on the 'darker' side of the fence... and, again I say...

if VNV Nation isn't formulaic or cheese trance... how exactly do you explain the similarity between Darude's Feel the Beat and Savior?

pure coincidence that they're the exact same fucking song? (and then throw in the fact that it's generally accepted to call Darude "cheese trance")

[spiggums]

oh and I can also point out a huge list of EBM/Industrial acts that put out quality music at one time and proceeded to put out crap later... many of whom are "big" names too...

I mean 4 names off the top of my head:
Pitchfork
Cleen
Skinny Puppy
Ministry

[Biodigit]

oh and I can also point out a huge list of EBM/Industrial acts that put out quality music at one time and proceeded to put out crap later... many of whom are "big" names too...

I mean 4 names off the top of my head:
Pitchfork
Cleen
Skinny Puppy
Ministry

Dude, there is a big difference between your examples and that point that I was trying to make.

I was talking about artists in EDM genre that would have one great track...let me re-iterate that... One measly track! and then everything is down hill from there. I have noticed that trend within ALL the sub-genres of EDM. Don't take me wrong, in the end, I still love this genre, for the gems that do come out every now and then. I just want to see some consistency thats all.

Pitchfork, Skinny Puppy have ALREADY established themselves by making great music over a span of decade(s), there is no comparison.

Cleen: I have pretty much liked everthing that they've come out with :shrug: but, let me point this out, they're still only a side-project.

Ministry: I've never really been fond of their music to begin with, so can't argue with you there.

[spiggums]

Dude, there is a big difference between your examples and that point that I was trying to make.


fair enough...

[projecthaujobb]

hah ok. whatever. you're entitled to your opinion. but seriously, saying that vnv nation is the best edm out there? (you didn't say that, the other guy did) that's just absurd. completely absurd. anybody who believes that is a fucking moron.


SARCASM, genius.

[the sex molesters]

SARCASM, genius.

sarcasm generally comes in orange text. make yourself clearer next time. there really was no hint of sarcasm in your writing. to such an extent that i theorize that you are just saying it's sarcasm as an attempt to save face.

[whobybarbituates]

vnv good fucking up classic songs bad end of story. oh yeah skinny puppy live is better than most sex.

[djmasamune]

how exactly do you explain the similarity between Darude's Feel the Beat and Savior?

They are the same in that they are in the same key and key signature. Thats it. I don't see how they are the same at all. One has this 'soulfull' singer with the trip-hopish breakdown, and the other dosn't sound like it at all. I don't see it. Maybe a vauge similarity at best, but the same song? Hardly.

[spiggums]

whatever helps you sleep at night, dude...

[projecthaujobb]

sarcasm generally comes in orange text. make yourself clearer next time. there really was no hint of sarcasm in your writing. to such an extent that i theorize that you are just saying it's sarcasm as an attempt to save face.

nice theory.....


it's not the best thing to have vnv as the biggest thing in the scene right now

next post...


the great vnv nation....the greatest music-makers of our generation.

[projecthaujobb]

whatever helps you sleep at night, dude...


at least get it right...if you're gonna compare vnv to a trance artist...try PUSH....ronan models some of his songs after him ('rubicon').

[spiggums]

I was making a direct comparison with one song... I would agree with the Push/M.I.K.E. comparison as well... which only further proves my point...

[projecthaujobb]

I was making a direct comparison with one song... I would agree with the Push/M.I.K.E. comparison as well... which only further proves my point...


fair enough.

[djmasamune]

yeah but savior and feel the beat sound nothing alike. To say they are the 'same song' just isn't right.

[spiggums]

yeah but savior and feel the beat sound nothing alike. To say they are the 'same song' just isn't right.

now you're just being silly. I mean obviously there's some degree of exaggeration to say they're the EXACT same song... but the two are so close I've heard someone layer the two on top of each other flippin back and forth and you could scarcely tell the difference (save the cheesy vocals... er, well.. they BOTH have cheesy vocals... just different kinds of cheese)...

so you can continue to say whatever you need to to keep yourself in denial... but there's no way around this one.

[Biodigit]

now you're just being silly. I mean obviously there's some degree of exaggeration to say they're the EXACT same song... but the two are so close I've heard someone layer the two on top of each other flippin back and forth and you could scarcely tell the difference (save the cheesy vocals... er, well.. they BOTH have cheesy vocals... just different kinds of cheese)...

so you can continue to say whatever you need to to keep yourself in denial... but there's no way around this one.

See spiggums, when i read "cheesy vocals", that's where I stop and don't even bother reading the rest. That's when I realize that me and you don't see eye to eye. Your opinion no longer holds any water....IMHO opinion ofcourse. Not that I'm saying that you're wrong or anything, it's just that your perception is totally different than mine along with the rest of the folks that are debating here. So there is no points really....

[spiggums]

See spiggums, when i read "cheesy vocals", that's where I stop and don't even bother reading the rest. That's when I realize that me and you don't see eye to eye. Your opinion no longer holds any water....IMHO opinion ofcourse. Not that I'm saying that you're wrong or anything, it's just that your perception is totally different than mine along with the rest of the folks that are debating here. So there is no points really....

oh I totally allow for the fact that others might not see the cheese factor in the vocals the way I do...
there's subjectivity in that...

but on the level of comparing the music of the two songs... that's much more of an objective comment...

[Biodigit]

oh I totally allow for the fact that others might not see the cheese factor in the vocals the way I do...
there's subjectivity in that...

but on the level of comparing the music of the two songs... that's much more of an objective comment...


What I've learned over the years is that if a listener is into a certain type of "genre", it has a great influence over their reaction to something new.


- When you play EBM/Industrial to an EDM listener, they call it "Trance w/Vocals"
- When you play either EBM/Industrial or EDM to your every day top 40 listener. They don't see any difference, they think it's all "Techno".
- When you play EDM to an industrial listener, they think it's all the same. Believe it or not, they don't see any difference between prog and dnb.

And you wouldn't believe how similar their reactions are!

So what I think is that we may not even realize it, but our perceptions are may be bit biased based on what we're currently into.

[the sex molesters]

What I've learned over the years is that if a listener is into a certain type of "genre", it has a great influence over their reaction to something new.


- When you play EBM/Industrial to an EDM listener, they call it "Trance w/Vocals"
- When you play either EBM/Industrial or EDM to your every day top 40 listener. They don't see any difference, they think it's all "Techno".
- When you play EDM to an industrial listener, they think it's all the same. Believe it or not, they don't see any difference between prog and dnb.

And you wouldn't believe how similar their reactions are!

So what I think is that we may not even realize it, but our perceptions are may be bit biased based on what we're currently into.

that's not entirely true. i have good friends who are into industrial/EBM, and they definitely can tell the difference between different kinds of EDM.

i think a better explaination would be that people who don't really pay attention to music have trouble differentiating styles. but in my experience, any person who actually pays attention to music can tell.

[spiggums]

What I've learned over the years is that if a listener is into a certain type of "genre", it has a great influence over their reaction to something new.

So what I think is that we may not even realize it, but our perceptions are may be bit biased based on what we're currently into.

you're making a glaring assumption over what I listen to... and what I have listened to... and my knowledge on music genres...

the simple fact of the matter is that not only am I still a fan of the different genres, but I was a cornerstone of the g/i scene for years here in DC...

hell, I still play "industrial" (note the quotes as I don't play TRUE industrial) in my sets...

sorry man... I'm not defined by one genre... so your attempts at rationalization here hold no water...

[Biodigit]

you're making a glaring assumption over what I listen to... and what I have listened to... and my knowledge on music genres...

the simple fact of the matter is that not only am I still a fan of the different genres, but I was a cornerstone of the g/i scene for years here in DC...

hell, I still play "industrial" (note the quotes as I don't play TRUE industrial) in my sets...

sorry man... I'm not defined by one genre... so your attempts at rationalization here hold no water...

I am not saying that you know about one genre more than the other. The examples I gave, wasn't a direct comparison to your musical taste. All I'm saying is we are influenced by what we listen to or what we're into RIGHT NOW. And you said it yourself, you WERE once a cornerstone of the g/i scene. Key word here is, you once "were". Also, your sets are leaning alot more on the EDM side than Industrial.

For example: Talla 2XLC was once at the forefront of industrial music scene. BIGod 20 were huge. Now he's into "Cheese Trance". If he were to come out and start bashing the current state of industrial music, you know what, I am going to question his credibility and take everything with a grain of salt.

[spiggums]

I am not saying that you know about one genre more than the other. The examples I gave, wasn't a direct comparison to your musical taste. All I'm saying is we are influenced by what we listen to or what we're into RIGHT NOW. And you said it yourself, you WERE once a cornerstone of the g/i scene. Key word here is, you once "were". Also, your sets are leaning alot more on the EDM side than Industrial.

For example: Talla 2XLC was once at the forefront of industrial music scene. BIGod 20 were huge. Now he's into "Cheese Trance". If he were to come out and start bashing the current state of industrial music, you know what, I am going to question his credibility and take everything with a grain of salt.

what you're saying is that a person is limited to a specific genre... some of us are a little more intelligent and have a bit more depth than that...

sorry if you don't

[Biodigit]

what you're saying is that a person is limited to a specific genre... some of us are a little more intelligent and have a bit more depth than that...

sorry if you don't

No, that's not what I'm saying and you're completely missing my point.

Nevermind.

[projecthaujobb]

but I was a cornerstone of the g/i scene for years here in DC...



what the fuck? lol

please expand.

[projecthaujobb]

What I've learned over the years is that if a listener is into a certain type of "genre", it has a great influence over their reaction to something new.


- When you play EBM/Industrial to an EDM listener, they call it "Trance w/Vocals"
- When you play either EBM/Industrial or EDM to your every day top 40 listener. They don't see any difference, they think it's all "Techno".
- When you play EDM to an industrial listener, they think it's all the same. Believe it or not, they don't see any difference between prog and dnb.

And you wouldn't believe how similar their reactions are!

So what I think is that we may not even realize it, but our perceptions are may be bit biased based on what we're currently into.


man you are right on point..i couldnt agree more....finally, someone here speaking with some intelligence.

[spiggums]

what the fuck? lol

please expand.

what's there to expand upon? This is pretty common knowledge...

[spiggums]

No, that's not what I'm saying and you're completely missing my point.

Nevermind.

you said, and I quote "our perceptions are based on what we're currently into"

over the last two days, in my car I've listened to selections from:

Mesh - Who Watches Over Me
Neuroticfish - Surimi
Covenant - Sequencer
Front 242 - Official Version
(as well as other things.. but that's like PSB, Dido and shit like that)

you're right... obviously, I'm not currently into EBM/Industrial/what have you.... and my perception of VNV is completely clouded based off of that...

(edit: I wasn't listening to the point at which it falls apart... it was who watches over me... damnit)

[the sex molesters]

spiggy was a dj with alchemy. you were one of the originals, right?

[spiggums]

I had fuck all to do with Alchemy...
But when we relinqueshed Thursdays at Nation, Tribby ultimately picked up on it...

basically I held residencies at Nation, Ballroom, Tracks... a number of other places... and many would say I'm pretty well responsible for the whole "modern synthpop" thing being as prevalent as it is...

[the sex molesters]

oh ok. well that's like 50 times cooler anyway. lol.

[the sex molesters]

what year did alchemy take over thursdays?

[spiggums]

I'm trying o remember exactly when we said that we were stopping things...

I WANT to say that it was late 2000 that we stopped spinning there regularly... as the last time I played at Nation on an industrial night was an Apop show on a Valentine's day and I BELIEVE that was 2/14/2001...

and then some time after that... Alchemy moved there...

but given my memory for dates... it could have been last week :neener:

[the sex molesters]

i seriously doubt you played a vday show at nation with apop on 2/14/01. that was a friday. it was also my 19th birthday, and the first time i went to buzz. oh wait. maybe that was the 15th.... hmmm. well i guess you were probably there the first time i was at nation, then. since i was going to "goth night" at nation in the year 2000.

[spiggums]

I'm pretty sure that we were still doing Thursdays at Nation there when we did the Summer Synthpop Festival at the Blackcat... and I KNOW that was Memorial Day weekend 2000...

that's the only date marker i have...

[the sex molesters]

yea that was my 18th year. when i discovered the club. :D

[spiggums]

February 14th was a wednesday in 2001...

and that makes sense, cause I remember it not being a thursday night...

[the sex molesters]

yea that makes sense now. hah if i had known i was missing apop i woulda been mad. lol.

[spiggums]

the best part about that show... we got my boy Mike Belt to do a schtick we had him do at the Summer Synthpop Festival before Apop went on...

where he tells stories about these "bands he used to be in" and why they separated... and then proceeds to play the "original versions" of these songs... all doing acoustic country/western version of club hits... the best was when he talked about being in a band and how they broke up cause the other guys were a little "queer" but that they did this song originally titled "Bitch you lie to me one more time I'm gonna lock you in the tool shed" and then burst into Forgiving Iris's (or Iris as they're now known) "Annie, would I lie to you?"

he also did a cover of "Non-Stop Violence"... Apop liked it so much, they asked him to join them on their next european tour... he couldn't do it on account of work... but still... it was pretty wild...

[the sex molesters]

oh for fuck's sake, he turned down touring with apop? i don't believe you. really. i'm absolutely incredulous. i would give anything.

[the sex molesters]

i'd kill a man to tour with apop. seriously.

[spiggums]

oh for fuck's sake, he turned down touring with apop? i don't believe you. really. i'm absolutely incredulous. i would give anything.

touring europe, for no money... meaning you'd have to leave your job behind... and hope you could find something as soon as you got back.. I mean, if it was doing something real where it could help further his music career... that would have been one thing... but doing nothing more than a cheap comic gag? It wasn't worth it to him...

[the sex molesters]

ok was the room and board free? would the travel be free? that's a lot of pay right there. i'd still take it.

[neoguido]

Hey all this discussion back and forth is good and all...but how does a 1 topic post turn into a 9 page flame about the validity of vnv nation's talent. Anyway can you get to flaming our music now for another 50 pages. Damn.

www.orinmusic.com

[spiggums]

look at it this way... it keeps plugging your guys's site... so that should be a positive, right? :wink:

[Agent Sunshine]

The vocals on Don't Fear the Reaper are totally out of key. That is bad. That's all I really got. Sorry.

[djmasamune]

was it the male or female vocals that are off key? Or both? If it's the guy, that dosn't supprise me. I suck at singing. Any idea how it's off key? Half step to high? I'll try to fix it.