NEED CPU Advice PLZ! ATHLON-> SOcket 939 vs 754

[john c]

Please help me guys!
Im a complete idiot when it comes to Hardware. So ive been struggling with the cost/benefit ratio of whether I should get an Athlon 64 chip with the 754 Socket or spend hundreds more for the newer 939 socket. hundreds to more expensive Mobo, CPU, Memory, etc
Whats the huge difference in performance? Dual memory? Please explain to an idiot here.

I really am on a budget but why buy a PC if it isnt going to be good enough in the first place? I wanna be able to run Cubase with tons of plugins with no problems.
Im deciding between these 2 chips:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-498&depa=1

and

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-484&depa=1

Plz help me decide! Thanks my friends

[Jay Selway]

Buy a G5. Problem solved.

Also will be easier for us to collaborate on projects.

Plus I can give you about $500,000 in software.

[djane]

What little advice I can give you is get as much ram as you can afford. I would say 2gb minimum. don't know much about PC chips since I use mac, but i do know that the chip won't matter unless you have the ram to go with it. The new g5s handle up to 8gb of ram...I would kill for one of those

[i licked JOEYd]

939

Get the Athalon 64.

How can you go wrong with 64-bit architecture?

[i licked JOEYd]

I would also recommend the Abit AV8 board for that 939 chip. :yes:

[john c]

the 754 socket is also 64-bit chip though Joey.
and i dont want a mac. With parts, i can get a monster PC for 1/3rd the price.
And jay, Cubase is the most stable on PC :)

[john c]

the AV8 board is the one I was looking at actually . Thanks Joey. But whats the hardware diff between 754 and 939?? And how do u take advantage of 939? Do I get DUal memory?

[MLikens]

Ok i just put together a new Pc at my home, I used a gigabyte nforce3 motherbaord socket 939 and im using the new AMD64 3500+. Socket 939 is way better than 734, and the new nforce4 boards are out. I also would go with nvidia for your video card, i have the 6800gt, i can run everygame out their on the higest settings. Most people like P4's but after i bought this amd64 i will never buy pentium again. Most amd's can be overclocked bye almost a gigahertz if u have the proper heatsink. GO with 939 and amd you cant go wrong.

[john c]

Jay I have more software than you now trust me :)

[MLikens]

Also my 939 has duel bios and has 4 slots for sata drives and another 4 for the new sata :) Duel bios is awesome, if your bios gos bad you have a back up so u dont lose info :)

[delphi]

the AV8 board is the one I was looking at actually . Thanks Joey. But whats the hardware diff between 754 and 939?? And how do u take advantage of 939? Do I get DUal memory?


I believe the 754 and the 939 are almost identical. I think the 939 may have a faster bus speed. This would come in handy if you're hooking up any DSP cards.

[john c]

heres the thing, I dont wanna get the TOP TOP of the line PC if a TOP TOP of 3 months ago is good enoguh. With the new Nvidia 4 you start raising my cost by $200-300 now. Id like to keep the whole PC around $800. Also, I dont play games. This will be 100% DAW. I got my current 1.7 Ghz pc for non music shit.

[lovedumplingx]

If you're looking at those it's fine. 64 bit processing is great, but I can't see much difference between the two chips asside from the Socket configuration (which means that they'll use different types of motherboards). One thing you should look at is the chips Front side bus. This is a big factor on how fast your computer will operate.

This of it in terms of a warehouse. The clock speed (in mHz) would be how fast the fork lift can get/process the information. The cache is likened to how many boxes could be stacked in front of the door before there's no more room. But the Bus speed is like how much information the truck could take to the destination at once. So you can have a super fast chip but not see major performance enhancements unless the bus is larger.

Already mentioned is a large memory setup. This is always good advice because it's another layover point of the data between processes.

I'd definitely try to find out what the bus speeds were first.

[john c]

I believe the 754 and the 939 are almost identical. I think the 939 may have a faster bus speed. This would come in handy if you're hooking up any DSP cards.

Yeah which im not. Im prob gonna hook up an Audiophile 2496 soundcard since I dont use ANY hardware (dont need digital to analog converters). If 754 will give me almost identical processing power, I will save $200-300! So thats my Q, is it really worth it? I just need ot be able to run TONS of VST's without skips.

[john c]

Both have 800mhz FSB
And I am planning on getting 1 gig of RAM.

[MLikens]

Thats the same cpu i have 939 3500+, i just looked at your newegg link, i would go with that. Thier is a nice nforce3 board that got good ratings in the last pc magazine, let me see if i can find it on newegg for ya:)

[john c]

btw thanks so much guys. I am totally clueless when it comes to hardware.

[i licked JOEYd]

AMD's own side-by-side comparrison of the two chipsets...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487^9492,00.html

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487^9492,00.html

[delphi]

Yeah which im not. Im prob gonna hook up an Audiophile 2496 soundcard since I dont use ANY hardware (dont need digital to analog converters). If 754 will give me almost identical processing power, I will save $200-300! So thats my Q, is it really worth it? I just need ot be able to run TONS of VST's without skips.


You should be fine then. Just get atleast 2GB of whichever you choose.

[lovedumplingx]

Both have 800mhz FSB
And I am planning on getting 1 gig of RAM.If they have the same FSB and the clock speeds are equivalent as well as the cache then go for the cheap one. The new socket config might be nice for power computing but if you're on a budget...you're on a budget and the computing difference between them will most likely be negligible.

[MLikens]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-263&depa=1

Check this one out 939 got good reviews :)

[lovedumplingx]

AMD's own side-by-side comparrison of the two chipsets...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487^9492,00.html
Good find but it really didn't contrast the chips beyond the DDR Controller information.

[john c]

Well we all agree 939 is the perfect solution. So the real Q is, as a producer, would I see significant results when running tons of VSTi's if i choose 939 over 754?

[lovedumplingx]

Well we all agree 939 is the perfect solution. So the real Q is, as a producer, would I see significant results when running tons of VSTi's if i choose 939 over 754?IMO probably not, based on the information presented so far.

[MLikens]

Dont know if your going to see that big of a difference between the two but i would still go with 939 :)

[i licked JOEYd]

you won't notice a big difference right now.

But 2-3 years from now when you're looking to upgrade, you WILL notice the difference hehe

[lovedumplingx]

you won't notice a big difference right now.

But 2-3 years from now when you're looking to upgrade, you WILL notice the difference heheGood point. You may wish to go with the newer chip simply because the socket setup may be the same if/when you decide to upgrade in a few years and then you won't need to get a new motherboard.

[john c]

hmmm good point. But with how fast things are moving, don't you thnk 939 will be obsolete in 3 yrs?

[Elektronkind]

939

Get the Athalon 64.

How can you go wrong with 64-bit architecture?

Alright, as an alpha geek, I gotta put the smack down on anyone who says "Get an Athlong64!" without apparently knowing the details of what a 64bit archetecture requires and entails.

So you have this box with a CPU that is 64bits. Great! So this system should be doubly-more-better over a 32bit system, Right?? Wrong.

Taking a 64bit Athlon system, slapping windows XP or what have you on there, and using your regualr apps and drivers won't buy you a damn thing. why?

First off, your OS needs to be 64bit. A 32bit kernel will use only 32bits of a CPU. That kernel knows only how to address 32bits of registers. It won't even be aware of the 32 other bits of space there.

Second, your device drivers need to be 64bit as well. You didn't really think you can load a 32bit object into a 64bit kernel, could you? This means that the hardware you put on your machine has 64bit versions of their drivers.

Third, your app also needs to be 64bit in order to take advantage of the 64bit OS it is running on. A 32bit app will stay and act like a 32bit app.

So you have all that now. What did it gain you, in real world terms? Not speed. 64bit apps have the ability to address and use more than 4Gb of memory. that's what it gives you.

/dale

[john c]

Well
Cubase is already 64 bit compatible. The benefits will appear when Windows becomes 64-bit.
PLUS I heard that even on a 32-bit system, AMD 64 STILL beats intel. All the producers in the IsraTrance Forum unanomously said get Athlon 64 with no question. AND once 64 bit windows comes out, then it will smoke even more.

[Elektronkind]

Oh, I totally agree with the AMD vs. Intel bit. Before I switched to Macs, I built only AMD-based peecees, with my first one being a AMD 486 DX/4 100Mhz :)

And yes, 64bit x86 apps will slowly get there... but again, the main benefit is that your app can use up 16TB of memory instead of being limited to 4GB as 32bit apps are. Now ask yourself, when was the last time you needed more than 4GB of memory on your system?

/dale

[lovedumplingx]

Alright, as an alpha geek, I gotta put the smack down on anyone who says "Get an Athlong64!" without apparently knowing the details of what a 64bit archetecture requires and entails.

So you have this box with a CPU that is 64bits. Great! So this system should be doubly-more-better over a 32bit system, Right?? Wrong.

Taking a 64bit Athlon system, slapping windows XP or what have you on there, and using your regualr apps and drivers won't buy you a damn thing. why?

First off, your OS needs to be 64bit. A 32bit kernel will use only 32bits of a CPU. That kernel knows only how to address 32bits of registers. It won't even be aware of the 32 other bits of space there.

Second, your device drivers need to be 64bit as well. You didn't really think you can load a 32bit object into a 64bit kernel, could you? This means that the hardware you put on your machine has 64bit versions of their drivers.

Third, your app also needs to be 64bit in order to take advantage of the 64bit OS it is running on. A 32bit app will stay and act like a 32bit app.

So you have all that now. What did it gain you, in real world terms? Not speed. 64bit apps have the ability to address and use more than 4Gb of memory. that's what it gives you.

/dale
:werd: Totally in league with you except for the fact that I believe Longhorn will utilize 64-bit architecture and the *nix world is moving there too so....it may be overkill now, but next year it'll make a difference.

[john c]

by next year, Ill be able to have 64 bit Windows with 64bit compatible Cubase. Nuff said no?
Also, can you please shed light. Would you buy 754 or 939 if you were me?
Also, 1 more thing, ANY harddrive advice? I have no idea WTF SATA/RAID/Etc are...

[i licked JOEYd]

64 bit Windows Longhorn is due out in one year.

[i licked JOEYd]

get the Abit AV8 board, it's SATA (Seriel ATA), has 4 DIMM slots for DDR400, AGP, 8 USB 1.0, 2 USB 2.0, Firewire, and LAN.

Serial ATA is the absolute shit.

[john c]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=13-127-181&DEPA=0
this one Joey? If this is it and so cheap, im sold.
Around $400 for the MOBO and 939 CPU. That works for me.

[i licked JOEYd]

yeah dude, it's a monster board, and Abit makes the best hardware anyway. And their bios are top notch and make overclocking eeeeeeeeasy.

[i licked JOEYd]

if you're building a complete new system, I would highly recommend getting an SATA hard drive or two.

The slowest part in your entire computer is your hard drive. It has to physically move platters and arms back and forth to get to the data. If you get a faster hard drive, with SATA to transfer the data faster, you'll notice a bigger difference than any amount of ram or processor upgrade.

[Elektronkind]

:werd: Totally in league with you except for the fact that I believe Longhorn will utilize 64-bit architecture and the *nix world is moving there too so....it may be overkill now, but next year it'll make a difference.

Well, the UNIX world has been there for 10 years already. I admin'd my first 64bit sytems back in 1995, when the UltraSPARC-1 and DEC Alpha systems came out.

But still, I'm not being a nay-sayer when it comes to 64bit archetectures at all. I just think that for home use, the benefits are over-hyped. Especially if someone touts improved speed as being one of them.

Sure, if you're running a hugenormous Oracle database, 64bit systems would be required (and this specific need was the main impetus for the 1990's development of 64bit hardware in the UNIX world.) Then 64bit workstations came along for things like AutoCAD and image processing. Audio is demanding of memory, but nowhere near THAT demanding. Yes, the time may come where you have plugins that chomp up massive amounts of memory like Cyzum with a bag of shlooooongs, but that sure isn't going to happen tomorrow... and when it does, it'll be time to upgrade again anyway.

/dale

[john c]

Joey: can you please link me to HD's you recommend :)

[Elektronkind]

if you're building a complete new system, I would highly recommend getting an SATA hard drive or two.


SATA is the shite indeed. I just built a 8 drive array of 250GB SATA drives (2.2TB!) and I got to say they've got mean sustained data xfer stats.

Get two SATA drives (Seagate suggested) and mirror them together. You'll get redundancy and better read performance.

/dale

[lovedumplingx]

Well, the UNIX world has been there for 10 years already. I admin'd my first 64bit sytems back in 1995, when the UltraSPARC-1 and DEC Alpha systems came out.Yes, but as far as home use is concerned the 64 bit trend for software and use is really just coming into bloom.

[nightwolfe75]

Just got wind of this thread and wanted to make a suggestion... The 64-bit chips are not true 64-bit processors. Both AMD and Intel are using 32-bit processors with 64-bit extensions. Basically, they emulate a 64-bit processor. Not that it's a big deal... The problem you will run into is that there are no apps out that will optimize the use of a 64-bit processor. You'll be paying for something that will probably not be used at it's best. Of course, I can't see the future and programmers may just prove me wrong... But I doubt it... ;-)

[john c]

Thanks for the input. Would do you recommend then?

[Calen]

I've got an Abit PIII board in one of my old beige boxes and that thing's lasted me for years. They're quality boards. I bought an Asus board for my new Athlon when I put it together and it's definitely just as good.

Never tried SATA for lack of funds, but I've read up on the specs and it's seriously sweet. I know my Asus mobo has onboard RAID 0/1 in the SATA controller, which makes it twice as easy to set up mirrored drives (which you definitely should do).

As far as 64bit vs 32bit, I'd go with whatever you can afford. If you can snag a 64bit now, it might not be a bad idea to do it.