Church has funeral for aborted fetuses

[Cactus Jack]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4751301,00.html

Colo. Church Buries Aborted Fetuses' Ashes

Sunday January 23, 2005 11:46 PM


AP Photo COJD102

By CATHERINE TSAI

Associated Press Writer

BOULDER, Colo. (AP) - A Roman Catholic church buried the ashes of hundreds of aborted fetuses Sunday, a day after the 32nd anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court decision that made abortion legal, drawing criticism that the church was exploiting women's grief to make a political statement.

A crowd of 250 parishioners prayed as the ashes were buried in the Sacred Heart of Mary Church cemetery, while a handful of protesters gathered nearby holding signs that read, ``This church is a grave robber.''

A mortuary hired by the abortion clinic to dispose of the fetuses had been giving the ashes to the church for years to be buried at a memorial. Dr. Warren Hern, clinic director, said he had no idea such an arrangement had been made and said his contract required the mortuary to bury the ashes in its own plot.

The church agreed to return the remains of 300 to 500 fetuses that had been cremated in November before the service began Sunday. The church had been planning to bury up to 1,000 fetuses. Seven bags containing remains from miscarriages also were buried.

Organizers said they wanted to give the fetuses the burial they deserved and provide a place for women who have had abortions to grieve and mourn.

``I think they misunderstand what we're doing,'' service organizer Susan LaVelle said. She said the parish has held unannounced burials twice a year since 2001, but the parish priest agreed to make the burial public this year.

LaVelle said the timing of the service so close to the Saturday anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision was a coincidence.

But Kate Horle, spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, has said many of Hern's patients were devastated by the news of a religious service.

``Our concern is for the women who had personal relationships with Dr. Hern and their understanding of what would happen with the fetuses,'' she said. ``That trust was violated with a third party.''

Horle said most of Hern's patients have fetuses with fatal anomalies. His clinic specializes in ``late abortion for fetal disorders,'' according to its Web site.

Hern did not immediately return a message seeking comment Sunday, but called the service last week ``a cynical exploitation of private grief for political purposes.''

Doug Kramer, 18, said his family attended the burial because his sister considered an abortion 14 years ago but instead gave her baby up for adoption.

``It's great to bring this out to the public,'' he said. ``The word needs to be spread. Abortion does stop a beating heart. It's not giving a girl or boy a chance at life.''

[BizarroCub]

How absolutely fucking morbid.

[Cactus Jack]

How absolutely fucking morbid.

Is this more morbid than filling plastic bags with aborted fetuses?

[Kif]

I think he's talking more about the slap in the face than the actual procedure

[BizarroCub]

Is this more morbid than filling plastic bags with aborted fetuses?

No...I was refering to grave robbery and the process of having funerary services for cell clusters. And the stealing of them to have the funeral. That's morbid.

Kinda like braking into liposuction clinics to take fat to make soap.

[Cactus Jack]

No...I was refering to grave robbery and the process of having funerary services for cell clusters. And the stealing of them to have the funeral. That's morbid.

Kinda like braking into liposuction clinics to take fat to make soap.

How can you be refering to grave robbery if we are only talking about cell clusters? Interesting.

[LibertyinmyLife]

This is very upsetting. No church should steal a family's baby, alive or dead, and force it to be part of a religious ceremony. If the families had wanted their fetuses to be buried in a Catholic ceremony, they would have done so themselves. The Catholic church or religion has no right to these babies.

[NYGblue]

What exactly are you trying to prove with this article? That people now have funerals for aborted fetuses? Good for them I still support a woman's right to chose. And moreover being a male, and you being a male, we have no fucking right to tell them what to do with their bodies. If you can't respect that, then go pray in a church.

[Milkman John]

Is this more morbid than filling plastic bags with aborted fetuses?

absolutely no personal attacks. zartan.

[blazinkikgurl]

i dont quite understand why u r posting this either.....NYGBlue, thanks for the props of standing up 4 us girls & not being a "man" making decisions for us.....

[NYGblue]

absolutely no personal attacks. zartan.

Do ju think I won't keel ju! I'm fucking Tony Montana! I KEEL FOR FUN!

[Shinin*Sta]

this is the effect of having bush in office. if anyone's been watching the news, they're arguing over committees having pro-choice leaders; the catholic church is refusing pro choice catholics communion. the list goes on.

[Cactus Jack]

What exactly are you trying to prove with this article? That people now have funerals for aborted fetuses? Good for them I still support a woman's right to chose. And moreover being a male, and you being a male, we have no fucking right to tell them what to do with their bodies. If you can't respect that, then go pray in a church.


Actually, I am pro choice that does go once and a while and prays at church. I just wanted to stir some kind of debate. Is that ok with you?

[Cactus Jack]

this is the effect of having bush in office. if anyone's been watching the news, they're arguing over committees having pro-choice leaders; the catholic church is refusing pro choice catholics communion. the list goes on.


So that you know, I have never been turned away and I am pro choice.

[NYGblue]

Actually, I am pro choice that does go once and a while and prays at church. I just wanted to stir some kind of debate. Is that ok with you?

I didn't realize you were playing devils advocate.

[MaryAnarchy]

No...I was refering to grave robbery and the process of having funerary services for cell clusters. And the stealing of them to have the funeral. That's morbid.

Kinda like braking into liposuction clinics to take fat to make soap.


i would hardly call late term abortion victims "cell clusters"

[BizarroCub]

i would hardly call late term abortion victims "cell clusters"

Where in the article does it specify they were late term?

No...they're not cell clusters. Their simply an internal female appendage at that point.

[LilLemur416]

I just wanted to stir some kind of debate.

Over if this church should be allowed to bury the ashes of aborted fetuses?

Part of me wants to say "No harm, no foul" - to be very crass about this - once I have thrown something away, as long as someone isn't using my trash to harm me, I don't particularly care what is done with it (I don't want someone going through my trash to get information to stalk me or steal my identity - that's not what I'm talking about). If someone wants to dig through my trashcan and find all the candy wrappers and worship them, that's their choice, it's not harming me & it makes them happy. On the other hand - I don't want to be told that I'm a bad person for discarding something or have someone try to force their beliefs on me.

I have had an abortion & have been thinking about this since yesterday when I first read the article. While I am not a Christian & am very anti-church, part of me wants to let these people do what makes them happy as long as they show me the same respect & allow me to live my life in a way that makes me happy. On the other hand - I am being forced against my will to participate in this ceremony if I had gone to that abortion clinic and I'm not comfortable with that.

[LilLemur416]

Where in the article does it specify they were late term?

No...they're not cell clusters. Their simply an internal female appendage at that point.

If I ever have to have my appendix removed - can we have a ceremony & bury that?

[BizarroCub]

If I ever have to have my appendix removed - can we have a ceremony & bury that?

Ever see "Fried Green Tomatos"?

People do it for lost limbs all the time...:shrug:

[MaryAnarchy]

Where in the article does it specify they were late term?

No...they're not cell clusters. Their simply an internal female appendage at that point.


i believe in the article it said that the one guy who gave them fetuses said that a large percentage of his abortions were late term, due to abnormalities and shit

internal...female..appendage.

yeah.

that's why i felt my kids kicking around inside of me....that...appendage of me.

they didn't have a life of their own...i swear.

/sarcasm

i loathe when guys try to talk about abortions and what it feels like to have a baby inside you.

they have no idea.

[MaryAnarchy]

I have had an abortion & have been thinking about this since yesterday when I first read the article. While I am not a Christian & am very anti-church, part of me wants to let these people do what makes them happy as long as they show me the same respect & allow me to live my life in a way that makes me happy. On the other hand - I am being forced against my will to participate in this ceremony if I had gone to that abortion clinic and I'm not comfortable with that.


i don't recall saying it made the women go to the "funerals"

if i ever had an abortion, perphaps going to something like that would make me think a little harder about the ramifications of an abortion and be a little more responsible about my sex life.

people nowadays have such a blantant disrespect for life in general anyways. it makes me ill.

[BizarroCub]

i loathe when guys try to talk about abortions and what it feels like to have a baby inside you.

they have no idea.

And I loathe when people make assumptions about my perspective based on things I didn't say.

[MaryAnarchy]

If I ever have to have my appendix removed - can we have a ceremony & bury that?


i'd say your appendix is a little different from your unwanted child.

[MaryAnarchy]

And I loathe when people make assumptions about my perspective based on things I didn't say.


sweet. at least we're on the same page here.

[zartan]

your heart moves around inside you but doesn't have a life of its own.

/devils advocacy

[MaryAnarchy]

:D
/takes teh bait


your heart doesn't have it's own brain, heart, spine, etc. it's own nervous and circulatory systems
your heart doesn't poke at you with its arms and legs.

if it's not painfully obvious, i am very prolife for myself.
others can do what they wish with their bodies, i just wish they would take precautions and not use abortions as a form of birth control.
or try to justify things by calling a baby a parasite, appendage, what have you.

[BizarroCub]

or try to justify things by calling a baby a parasite, appendage, what have you.

However, to take a vein you were, can a fetus exist without being feed and housed by a mother? Could it as an organism exist without the mother? Could it breath without the mother? Eat without the mother? Can it filter it's own blood? Not suffer the same fate as the mother? Not be poisoned if the mother is?

No it can't.

Therefore it is a part or an appendage to the mothers body, until such time as it becomes it's own independant organism.

[MaryAnarchy]

it was created by the mother though.
it's not something foreign that attached itself to her.
most true parasites are totally different species/types than the host.

comparing an embryo/fetus/baby/whatever to something like a tick or tapeworm really bothers me.

[MaryAnarchy]

i REALLY dont' feel like getting into this..i had a great day so far, and i dont 'like thinking of things that make my stomach churn and cloak my good spirits.

to each their own.

[BizarroCub]

it was created by the mother though.
it's not something foreign that attached itself to her.
most true parasites are totally different species/types than the host.

comparing an embryo/fetus/baby/whatever to something like a tick or tapeworm really bothers me.

Is the word parasite anywhere in what I wrote? Nope.

The word appendage is though.

[MaryAnarchy]

an appendage is an arm, or a leg.


whatever. i dont' feel like arguing with you.

[BizarroCub]

an appendage is an arm, or a leg.

Which was the point...

[Zimma]

I didn't see anywhere in the article anything about them forcing the mothers to come to the service. The basis for this entire thread is nothing but a good vehicle for drama.

That being said, these mothers obviously don't care what happens to the ashes of their aborted babies. Why do any of you? If a bunch of nuns wants to have a funeral service because they feel they owe it to a life that was snuffed out before it had any chance, who is anyone else to tell them otherwise? Please... You're making it sound like they're stealing corpses straight from the grave.

[MaryAnarchy]

Which was the point...


most appendages do not have their own seperate brain waves though....

show me one that does, and i will buy you 10,000 shots :)

but....fetuses/babies/clustersofcells don't register brain waves until 40 days after conception...which is about a month and a half..

[MaryAnarchy]

I didn't see anywhere in the article anything about them forcing the mothers to come to the service. The basis for this entire thread is nothing but a good vehicle for drama.

That being said, these mothers obviously don't care what happens to the ashes of their aborted babies. Why do any of you? If a bunch of nuns wants to have a funeral service because they feel they owe it to a life that was snuffed out before it had any chance, who is anyone else to tell them otherwise? Please... You're making it sound like they're stealing corpses straight from the grave.


word
i just saw it as they wanted to give them decent burials.
to each their own.

here's an interesting question though...in the catholic religion, babies cannot go to heaven until they are baptized, due to being born with origional sin.
i wonder what churches think of aborted fetuses...are they condemned to purgatory?

[MaryAnarchy]

i love how i say i dont' wanna talk about this anymore, but continue talking about it.