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BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 02:22 PM
World fears new Bush era

Blair urges more consensual US approach as poll shows unease in 18 out of 21 nations

Ewen MacAskill, diplomatic editor
Thursday January 20, 2005
The Guardian

George Bush will be sworn in as president of the United States for a second term today in a lavish Washington ceremony, amid mounting international concern that his new administration will make the world a more dangerous place.
A poll of 21 countries published yesterday - reflecting opinion in Africa, Latin America, North America, Asia and Europe - showed that a clear majority have grave fears about the next four years.

Fifty-eight per cent of the 22,000 who took part in the poll, commissioned by the BBC World Service, said they expected Mr Bush to have a negative impact on peace and security, compared with only 26% who considered him a positive force.

The survey also indicated for the first time that dislike of Mr Bush is translating into a dislike of Americans in general.

Tony Blair, in an interview with the Guardian, expressed hope that Mr Bush's second term would prove to be more consensual than the first.

He said there had been an evolution in US policy, witnessed by him in successive conversations with Mr Bush.

"Evolution comes from experience," he said.

Mr Blair said that, as part of a learning process that began with the invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001, the US administration had reached the conclusion that "in the end, we can take security and military measures against terrorism but... the best prospect of peaceful coexistence lies in the spread of democracy and human rights".

Asked if Mr Bush had become a multilateralist, Mr Blair said he could not speak for the president but "it is significant, in my view, that he is coming to Europe as his first foreign visit".

Mr Bush is due in Europe at the end of next month.

The inauguration is taking place amid unprecedented security in Washington as luminaries from across the country converge on the capital.

Mr Bush spent the eve of the ceremony to mark the start of his second term shuttling between a series of events: from three candlelit dinners to thank his biggest campaign donors through to a "Celebration of Freedom" fireworks concert.

He described the elections in Afghanistan late last year and in Iraq planned for next week as "landmark events in the history of liberty".

Mr Bush also proclaimed his inauguration as "a sign of hope for freedom-loving people everywhere".

Aware of the damage that has been done to America's reputation over the war in Iraq and the Kyoto protocol on global warming, the new secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, whose appointment was confirmed by the Senate yesterday, promised to try to repair relations with France, Germany and other countries bruised during the first term.

But yesterday's poll pointed to the deep suspicion of Mr Bush that exists across the world. It found that the bulk of people in 18 of the 21 countries surveyed had negative feelings towards the president.

Traditional US allies in western Europe were among those expressing the most negative feelings about the re-election.

In Britain, 64% of those polled said they disagreed with the proposition that the US would have a mainly positive impact on the world. The figures were even higher in France (75%) and Germany (77%).

Mr Bush's victory was viewed positively in only three of the 21 countries: the Philippines, Poland and India.

One of the organisers of the poll, Steven Kull, the director of the Programme on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, said: "This is quite a grim picture for the US."

Another of the organisers, Doug Miller, president of the polling firm GlobeScan, said he had been monitoring trends since the start of 2003 and the figure for those who disagreed that the US was having a mainly positive impact on the world had risen from 46% then to 49% last year, and had now jumped to 58%.

"Our research makes very clear that the re-election of President Bush has further isolated America from the world," he said. "It also supports the view of some Americans that unless his administration changes its approach to world affairs in its second term, it will continue to erode America's good name, and hence its ability to effectively influence world affairs."

Asked how Mr Bush's re-election had affected their feelings towards Americans, 72% of those polled in Turkey said it made them feel worse about Americans, 65% in France, 59% in Brazil and 56% in Germany.

There was also overwhelming opposition to sending troops to Iraq, even among close allies such as Britain.

"Fully one in four British citizens say the Bush re-election has made them more opposed to sending troops to Iraq, resulting in a total of 63% now opposed," Mr Miller said.

The poll was conducted between November 15 and January 3 in Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Lebanon, Mexico, Philippines, Poland, Russia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey and the UK. A separate poll, for the Los Angeles Times, shows Americans are also polarised over the prospect of a second term, including over the conduct of the war in Iraq.

Mr Bush's job approval rating stands at 50%, with 47% disapproving. In recent times, only Richard Nixon at the start of his second term in 1972 recorded poll ratings as poor.

DeAtHmOnGeR bEaR
2005-01-20, 02:35 PM
The survey also indicated for the first time that dislike of Mr Bush is translating into a dislike of Americans in general.

Marvelous. Simply.
I love that now the entire country is going to be looked at unfavorably...

evey
2005-01-20, 02:37 PM
Great. Please world, don't hate us all because we have a chimp in office! Just hate half of us!

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 02:39 PM
Marvelous. Simply.
I love that now the entire country is going to be looked at unfavorably...

And the thing is...up until Nov. most people went "Well...we don't like Bush, but that doesn't mean we don't like Americans..." However, since most Americans totally validated all of the bullshit that monkey has been pushing, that is now changed. Gotta love it.

Skandar
2005-01-20, 02:55 PM
They're just stupid foreigners anyway.

Pseudo Society
2005-01-20, 02:58 PM
This really hinders my desire to travel the world. I do however, still want to move elsewhere. (Not cause Bush is president, cause I want to try something different.) Japan was fun, but I wouldnt want to spend the rest of my life there. :no:

Louis Riley
2005-01-20, 03:12 PM
As a foriegner, I can say that the world allready had a pretty bad view of America because of Bush and his actions....it wasn't toward the people, but with his "mandate" and the fact that supposedly the administration can no longer be held accountable for its actions this will change....America was wrong to go to war with Iraq. The justifications were proven false. Bush was re elected...how is the rest of the world meant to react? happily? before the fall of the Taliban, Afghanistan had no drug export. It is now the largest exporter of Opium in the world. Iraq is now the biggest spot for terrorist training in the world....how does this show that the Bush administration's foriegn policy has been a good one? and how does it indicate that things won't get worse because of it? the monkey is in power still, and supposedly it was a democratic election. To the rest of the world, this indicates the people support him.

Louis Riley
2005-01-20, 03:13 PM
They're just stupid foreigners anyway.

and people wonder why the world doesn't like America

Skandar
2005-01-20, 03:23 PM
and people wonder why the world doesn't like America


In America we have something called sarcasm. Ok, that was sarcastic too. Seriously, though, I was joking dude. I'm only half American and lived in Africa for 7 years.

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 03:26 PM
As a foriegner, I can say that the world allready had a pretty bad view of America because of Bush and his actions....it wasn't toward the people, but with his "mandate" and the fact that supposedly the administration can no longer be held accountable for its actions this will change....America was wrong to go to war with Iraq. The justifications were proven false. Bush was re elected...how is the rest of the world meant to react? happily? before the fall of the Taliban, Afghanistan had no drug export. It is now the largest exporter of Opium in the world. Iraq is now the biggest spot for terrorist training in the world....how does this show that the Bush administration's foriegn policy has been a good one? and how does it indicate that things won't get worse because of it? the monkey is in power still, and supposedly it was a democratic election. To the rest of the world, this indicates the people support him.

:werd:

However, one thing. The poppy fields in Afghanistan didn't pop up overnight. There most certainly was Opiate drug traffic coming out of Afghanistan before hand.

Skandar
2005-01-20, 03:33 PM
:werd:

However, one thing. The poppy fields in Afghanistan didn't pop up overnight. There most certainly was Opiate drug traffic coming out of Afghanistan before hand.

Yeah, I was gonna comment on that too. Opiate production has, however, reached all-time highs in the country.

Louis Riley
2005-01-20, 03:40 PM
In America we have something called sarcasm. Ok, that was sarcastic too. Seriously, though, I was joking dude. I'm only half American and lived in Africa for 7 years.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to react the way I did...I just hear that shit so often from people that mean it

RYU
2005-01-20, 03:43 PM
They're just stupid foreigners anyway.
That thinking is what causes so much animosity towards Americans.

Louis Riley
2005-01-20, 03:47 PM
:werd:

However, one thing. The poppy fields in Afghanistan didn't pop up overnight. There most certainly was Opiate drug traffic coming out of Afghanistan before hand.

I'll accept that, but like Skandar said, it is at an alltime high....I think they're worse than Columbia and cocaine at the moment, but I don't have any definative proof of that

Wedge
2005-01-20, 03:54 PM
Yeah, I was gonna comment on that too. Opiate production has, however, reached all-time highs in the country.Might have something to do with the fact that we don't chop off the hands of opium growers, ya think?

Honestly I don't care if a majority of foreigners are worried about Bush, or decide to dislike Americans because of it, I don't vote to appease foreigners. They don't like the way we vote, tough tits. They live in their country for a reason we live in ours for a reason.

evey
2005-01-20, 03:57 PM
But we can't have foreigners hating the world police, we help them!

Louis Riley
2005-01-20, 04:13 PM
I'm not going to get further into this, I don't want to get into an argument today and I don't want to offend anyone...all I'll say is America can't continue to push it's way through the world claiming to be the protector of peace and justice when it shows no inclination of the sort, then expect the rest of the world to praise and support it...

evey
2005-01-20, 04:14 PM
all I'll say is America can't continue to push it's way through the world claiming to be the protector of peace and justice when it shows no inclination of the sort, then expect the rest of the world to praise and support it.

Thank you.

nietzsche
2005-01-20, 04:28 PM
I wonder if these "foreigners" hold their own government to account the way they hold ours.

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 04:34 PM
I wonder if these "foreigners" hold their own government to account the way they hold ours.

Well...look at the list Brian...how many of those countries have a.) had revolutions booting out their governments...b.) have booted corrupt people out of their governments...c.) have given their governments MAJOR flak for getting invovled in Iraq.

You'll note..lots of em.

nietzsche
2005-01-20, 04:46 PM
Well...look at the list Brian...how many of those countries have a.) had revolutions booting out their governments...b.) have booted corrupt people out of their governments...c.) have given their governments MAJOR flak for getting invovled in Iraq.

You'll note..lots of em.

kind of a badly worded question, though, too. name one country that " would have a mainly positive impact on the world".

In terms of actual evidence, it's simply impossible to think of another country in any context that has had more of a positive impact on this world in the last 200+ years than this country, or even in the distant future. What has any other country contributed that can compete with this country in terms of positive impact?

And I don;t want some half ass list off the top of your head. Think about contributions like our model of democracy and rights, the printing press, the automobile, space travel, the computer, medicine, and yes, the decisiveness of American miltary power. Nobody even comes close.

I would venture that you would get most people in this country to think much the same of the rest of the world. Meaningless question, really.

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 04:52 PM
Well...the original question, what accountability has been gotten or expressed from the American people from it's governments?

nietzsche
2005-01-20, 04:55 PM
Well...the original question, what accountability has been gotten or expressed from the American people from it's governments?

well, my idea of accountability in this sense doesn't nec. mean throwing anybody out of office. I am just curious what they think about their own government.

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 04:57 PM
kind of a badly worded question, though, too. name one country that " would have a mainly positive impact on the world".

In terms of actual evidence, it's simply impossible to think of another country in any context that has had more of a positive impact on this world in the last 200+ years than this country, or even in the distant future. What has any other country contributed that can compete with this country in terms of positive impact?

And I don;t want some half ass list off the top of your head. Think about contributions like our model of democracy and rights, the printing press, the automobile, space travel, the computer, medicine, and yes, the decisiveness of American miltary power. Nobody even comes close.

I would venture that you would get most people in this country to think much the same of the rest of the world. Meaningless question, really.

You have something of a point. However, that isn't the context here.

The Printing Press...um...Johnnes Guttenberg, that's kind of a dubious claim.

And a lot of those things you listed improved due to collaboration and information sharing with other countries. Even down to Military Technology.

I could say that a lot of our great military and scientific advancements are somewhat based on Foreigners, name on prominent American physicist of the past 50 years? However, ask just about anyone and they can rattle off the named Einstein, Heissenburg, and Oppenheimer. Even the American model of Democracy was jacked from and inspired by the Iriquoi Confederacy.

So yes, this was a meaningless question.

If there is one thing that could be said here, it's that those things you claim as solely American acheivements are built around foriegn immigrants.

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 04:58 PM
well, my idea of accountability in this sense doesn't nec. mean throwing anybody out of office. I am just curious what they think about their own government.

Well...Spain and the Ukraine both recently showed what they thought about them. Italians HATE Berlosconi. Etc.

Louis Riley
2005-01-20, 05:06 PM
You have something of a point. However, that isn't the context here.

The Printing Press...um...Johnnes Guttenberg, that's kind of a dubious claim.

And a lot of those things you listed improved due to collaboration and information sharing with other countries. Even down to Military Technology.

I could say that a lot of our great military and scientific advancements are somewhat based on Foreigners, name on prominent American physicist of the past 50 years? However, ask just about anyone and they can rattle off the named Einstein, Heissenburg, and Oppenheimer. Even the American model of Democracy was jacked from and inspired by the Iriquoi Confederacy.

So yes, this was a meaningless question.

If there is one thing that could be said here, it's that those things you claim as solely American acheivements are built around foriegn immigrants.


thankyou, I was just looking into this....Germany made the first real automobile, the basis of space travel technology comes from V1/V2 rockets and research done by the Germans during WW2....I agree with your point

Louis Riley
2005-01-20, 05:07 PM
Well...Spain and the Ukraine both recently showed what they thought about them. Italians HATE Berlosconi. Etc.

Everyone in England I know despises Blair, and not just for his actions with Bush....

nietzsche
2005-01-20, 05:12 PM
thankyou, I was just looking into this....Germany made the first real automobile, the basis of space travel technology comes from V1/V2 rockets and research done by the Germans during WW2....I agree with your point

Where did I say America invented anything? I don't know the origin, but certainly America gets the most credit for pushing the boundaries - indeed, setting them! - of space travel, cars, communication, etc.

Skandar
2005-01-20, 05:19 PM
SUV's, yay!

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 05:20 PM
Where did I say America invented anything? I don't know the origin, but certainly America gets the most credit for pushing the boundaries - indeed, setting them! - of space travel, cars, communication, etc.

Really? I thought the Japanese got the credit for being the technological trendsetters?

And all the things you listeds advancement and inception are all based upon International Cooperation.

nietzsche
2005-01-20, 05:50 PM
:rolleyes: you guys will argue anything. this is skepticism and sophistry at it's grandest.

BizarroCub
2005-01-20, 05:55 PM
:yap: :yap: :yap: