Simon
2004-07-23, 10:39 AM
http://www.i-dj.co.uk/artists/artistspage.php?ID=114&page=1
The idea was simple enough. Get two of the world’s biggest techno DJs together to interview each other and see what happens. Both have done hundreds of interviews in their time, of course. But talking to journalists is one thing, being interviewed by one of your peers is quite another. In fact, it sounds like the set-up line to a joke you’d find in a Christmas cracker: ‘what did one techno DJ say to the other?’. So what’s the punchline?
Why Jeff Mills and Dave Clarke? Well, both might be said to be at turning points in their careers. Mills turned 40 recently, and this month enters uncharted territory by releasing the first techno DVD, ‘Exhibitionist’, a visual representation of his simultaneously-released mix CD by the same name. Clarke, who for personal reasons calls 2003 “the most emotionally testing year I’ve ever had,” finally shook off a troublesome record contract to release his second solo album, ‘Devil’s Advocate’.
And indeed, at first sight the two might appear to have much in common. Both are at the top of their game, in demand for parties every weekend all around the world, and both have made the transition from DJs to fully-fledged recording artists, each release a mini-event in itself. Both are busy-handed mixer-abusers with a love of fast cars, and so on.
All the same, the similarities between them are equalled by the differences. Mills is as much conceptual artist as record producer and DJ, firing off ideas as quickly as he whips records in and out of the mix (he packs 45 tracks into ‘Exhibitionist’) and already has several new projects planned out for 2004, such as an orchestral score, an album based on his predictions for the year 2084 and a planned joint tour with Laurent Garnier.
Clarke, meanwhile, is entirely focused on promoting ‘Devil’s Advocate’ for months to come and building on his burgeoning live performances, like a recent headline slot at London’s Scala venue, to the point where he refuses to make any predictions about when he might be ready to start work on any follow-up.
Then there are the little things: Mills famously fills his sets with his own material; Clarke, by his own admission, gets “embarrassed” if he plays more than one or two of his own tracks a night. Mills has several record labels on the go and turns out a pile of releases every year; ‘Devil’s Advocate’ is Clarke’s first solo material (bar a couple of singles) in the best part of a decade. Ask Dave to ‘explain’ his music and he’ll struggle; ask Jeff and you could be there hours.
Surprisingly, the two have only met a few times, and then only in passing (“We see each other at parties,” says Jeff. “Typically he’s coming and I’m going, or vice versa“). Yet both are, as the cliché goes, more than aware of the other’s work (Dave: “I’ve always respected the music that Jeff’s done, some of his stuff was very inspirational to me”).
Unfortunately, and perhaps predictably, being two of the world’s biggest techno DJs with schedules to match, actually getting the two together in the same place for even a couple of hours proved a lot more difficult in practice than in theory.
Perhaps if we’d organised a huge party and booked both to play months in advance (Clarke, for example, already has gigs as far ahead as August), it might have been feasible. But iDJ is a magazine not a promotion company, so instead Clarke and Mills had to settle for each setting the other a series of questions. Neither knew what to expect from the other and both had free reign. Both used it. Here’s what happened…
Jeff Mills By Dave Clarke
Were you into Kraftwerk because of Electrifyin’ Mojo playing them or had you already discovered them?“I had knowledge about Kraftwerk and other electronic music groups because of my skateboarding days. Along with Ted Nugent and other thrash rock artists, we used to skate to ‘euro-tech’ as we called it in those days (1974-1978). Shortly after the release of Kraftwerk’s ‘Computer World’ LP, everything exploded in the streets of Detroit. Mojo was partially responsible for that explosion.”
Who do you rate as an amazing up and coming producer who hasn’t yet got the recognition that he or she deserves?
“This is always difficult to tell because these days what makes someone rise to the top has very little to do with skill. It’s more the effectiveness and level of promotion. From my point of view, it appears that there are lots of multi-talented people making electronic music but most of these people are just focusing in one direction. If electronic musicians began to regularly have more contact with other forms of art, we would begin to recognise these people and their ideas more clearly. Up until recently, with the invention of the Internet, musicians and artists relied heavily on the print media for exposure. So chances to discover are now increased.”
If you feel that you can’t be intellectual with instrumental music, is it better to supplement it with visuals or lyrics?
“I’m quite satisfied with the challenges of relaying messages through music without conventional vocals/lyrics. Learning how to say a lot without saying anything is a life-long mission for me. Just recently, I discovered that a well-known DJ gear manufacturer plans to release a DVD turntable this spring. With something like this, I can imagine the visual possibilities will expand to another level. Some music critics would argue that the most intellectual music is instrumental, eg classical, fusion rock/jazz, and that using vocals stagnates the listener’s ability to drift into another perspective of what is being heard.”
Do you believe in pragmatism and what the philosopher Henry James stood for: truth is the utmost goal but our upbringing rules our version of truth?
“This is true. I believe that mankind’s ability to define truths about the world, why we exist and where we are all going is determined by the roots that he/she comes from. Does this mean that even the soil is contaminated? Possibly so. For some reason, we tend to view ourselves as a phenomenon because the truth has either been withheld by a select few or not discovered yet. As a result of not knowing the truth, we’ve found ways to section ourselves away from each other. Division through different territories seems to be the most convenient, so a French person thinks he’s different from a Brazilian. In the view of an ant or an alien, it probably doesn’t really matter. Until mankind can look at themselves and others exactly as they are, James sadly stands correct.”
Is jazz the teacher?
“Yes, it is. But before one attends class, one should have a self-check. Learning music theory or non-theory requires almost complete attention and patience. Jazz does not reach out for the convenience of the listener – you must listen to it without prejudging what it’s supposed to be. By doing this, the listener might have chances to learn wonderful things about the universe and beyond.”
Does technology whet your appetite?
“Yes. Not at a level where I have to have any and every gadget available. When something comes out that I think is a step forward, nothing stands in my way of getting it. I have in the past gone to great lengths to get my hands on certain pieces of equipment.”
Has becoming a father changed your music?
“In all honesty, I have to say no. What fatherhood does is change the amount of time you have to think about and make music. I mean, when I have ideas about free-floating in deep, cold space only to be slowly pulled in an unknown direction by the tail of a massive passing meteorite, no, I’m not thinking about fatherhood: the fantasy stays the same.“
Where is it better to live, musically and intellectually: the US or Europe?
“Musically, right now, definitely in the US. Here was the birth of jazz, blues, rock, hip hop, house, techno and so many other genres. Intellectually, at this time, I have to say Europe. Right now here in the US, there are so many things happening that are beyond logical belief. America has become a vast sea of contradiction and seems to be spiralling off to a point of no return. Unfortunately Europeans can’t see the US media on a day-to-day basis to witness how bizarre it has all become.”
Do you still have the passion when you DJ: does it set the hairs off on the back of your neck?
“The feeling never changes. I still get very excited and can very easily lose myself in the music.”
Turbo or normally-aspirated?
“Turbo, of course.”
Dave Clarke by Jeff Mills
What are the special things in music you look for to determine whether it should be heard through your DJ sets? How would you describe a ‘good track’?
“To make it into my DJ sets it should have power, emotion – preferably dark – and great production. A good track should encapsulate all of those and present something original, whether instrumentally or with lyrics.”
If you could go back to the beginning of your career as a DJ, what, if anything, would you change and why?
“Absolutely nothing. I am happy where I am at and I have got here because of the journey I have taken. The only thing I wish could have changed outside of my own career was that DJs should have been seen as musicians at a much earlier stage. The Musicians Union looked down on what we were trying to do and that probably had some consequence on some of my earlier contracts.”
Is making music and DJing a lifelong plan for you?
“Tricky question. As I have always felt I was born to do what I do, I hope to be still making music for a long time to come. I have always had a fantasy of retiring to Bermuda and making reggae in my fifties and sixties but that’s still a very, very long time away and life has a habit of changing your plans. With regards to DJing I’m still young so I can take the punishing and gruelling schedules that sometimes present themselves. Whether or not I still can when I am 40 and over remains to be seen, but I’m sure if I still love the music that will give me the strength to share it the world over.”
On your latest album, which would you say is the track that best describes your personality, and why?
“Tough one! ‘Blue On Blue’ is a strong one – Mr Lif did an amazing job with the lyrics and delivery but it expresses some very strong emotions that I can feel. ‘Addendum’ had a sample on there from Patti Smith that again made the track personal to me. Unfortunately the sample had to come off but the track is still strong. ‘Stay Out Of The Light’ would be a good representation of the darker side of me and ‘Deo Gratias’ would represent a lighter, more hopeful side. All the other tracks are all about my club culture, but I really feel to have a track that describes my personality as a whole could never happen.”
Other than music, do you use any other form of art/communication to express your ideas?
“I cannot draw or paint and feel uncomfortable writing personal things, so music is my only artistic catalyst.”
What makes Dave Clarke tick?
“Many different things: emotion, honesty, excitement when experiencing new things, seeing nature, getting angry at politicians, technology, design…”
How in your opinion does music serve the world best?
“It opens ears, minds and eyes without language and prejudice, it lets people live a far more fulfilling life even if they have problems they can’t express. It bookmarks occasions and when played later on in life helps us to remember them in vivid colours.”
What is the best advice you would give to someone ten years younger than yourself?
“If they were starting out in this business it would be that they should do it for the passion, firstly; get a good manager, agent and lawyer behind you so they can worry about the side of the business that detracts from the music; and believe in yourself in an honest way and don’t believe what you read about yourself in the press – good or bad.”
What has music taught you?
“Everything – music is an encyclopaedia to emotion.”
The idea was simple enough. Get two of the world’s biggest techno DJs together to interview each other and see what happens. Both have done hundreds of interviews in their time, of course. But talking to journalists is one thing, being interviewed by one of your peers is quite another. In fact, it sounds like the set-up line to a joke you’d find in a Christmas cracker: ‘what did one techno DJ say to the other?’. So what’s the punchline?
Why Jeff Mills and Dave Clarke? Well, both might be said to be at turning points in their careers. Mills turned 40 recently, and this month enters uncharted territory by releasing the first techno DVD, ‘Exhibitionist’, a visual representation of his simultaneously-released mix CD by the same name. Clarke, who for personal reasons calls 2003 “the most emotionally testing year I’ve ever had,” finally shook off a troublesome record contract to release his second solo album, ‘Devil’s Advocate’.
And indeed, at first sight the two might appear to have much in common. Both are at the top of their game, in demand for parties every weekend all around the world, and both have made the transition from DJs to fully-fledged recording artists, each release a mini-event in itself. Both are busy-handed mixer-abusers with a love of fast cars, and so on.
All the same, the similarities between them are equalled by the differences. Mills is as much conceptual artist as record producer and DJ, firing off ideas as quickly as he whips records in and out of the mix (he packs 45 tracks into ‘Exhibitionist’) and already has several new projects planned out for 2004, such as an orchestral score, an album based on his predictions for the year 2084 and a planned joint tour with Laurent Garnier.
Clarke, meanwhile, is entirely focused on promoting ‘Devil’s Advocate’ for months to come and building on his burgeoning live performances, like a recent headline slot at London’s Scala venue, to the point where he refuses to make any predictions about when he might be ready to start work on any follow-up.
Then there are the little things: Mills famously fills his sets with his own material; Clarke, by his own admission, gets “embarrassed” if he plays more than one or two of his own tracks a night. Mills has several record labels on the go and turns out a pile of releases every year; ‘Devil’s Advocate’ is Clarke’s first solo material (bar a couple of singles) in the best part of a decade. Ask Dave to ‘explain’ his music and he’ll struggle; ask Jeff and you could be there hours.
Surprisingly, the two have only met a few times, and then only in passing (“We see each other at parties,” says Jeff. “Typically he’s coming and I’m going, or vice versa“). Yet both are, as the cliché goes, more than aware of the other’s work (Dave: “I’ve always respected the music that Jeff’s done, some of his stuff was very inspirational to me”).
Unfortunately, and perhaps predictably, being two of the world’s biggest techno DJs with schedules to match, actually getting the two together in the same place for even a couple of hours proved a lot more difficult in practice than in theory.
Perhaps if we’d organised a huge party and booked both to play months in advance (Clarke, for example, already has gigs as far ahead as August), it might have been feasible. But iDJ is a magazine not a promotion company, so instead Clarke and Mills had to settle for each setting the other a series of questions. Neither knew what to expect from the other and both had free reign. Both used it. Here’s what happened…
Jeff Mills By Dave Clarke
Were you into Kraftwerk because of Electrifyin’ Mojo playing them or had you already discovered them?“I had knowledge about Kraftwerk and other electronic music groups because of my skateboarding days. Along with Ted Nugent and other thrash rock artists, we used to skate to ‘euro-tech’ as we called it in those days (1974-1978). Shortly after the release of Kraftwerk’s ‘Computer World’ LP, everything exploded in the streets of Detroit. Mojo was partially responsible for that explosion.”
Who do you rate as an amazing up and coming producer who hasn’t yet got the recognition that he or she deserves?
“This is always difficult to tell because these days what makes someone rise to the top has very little to do with skill. It’s more the effectiveness and level of promotion. From my point of view, it appears that there are lots of multi-talented people making electronic music but most of these people are just focusing in one direction. If electronic musicians began to regularly have more contact with other forms of art, we would begin to recognise these people and their ideas more clearly. Up until recently, with the invention of the Internet, musicians and artists relied heavily on the print media for exposure. So chances to discover are now increased.”
If you feel that you can’t be intellectual with instrumental music, is it better to supplement it with visuals or lyrics?
“I’m quite satisfied with the challenges of relaying messages through music without conventional vocals/lyrics. Learning how to say a lot without saying anything is a life-long mission for me. Just recently, I discovered that a well-known DJ gear manufacturer plans to release a DVD turntable this spring. With something like this, I can imagine the visual possibilities will expand to another level. Some music critics would argue that the most intellectual music is instrumental, eg classical, fusion rock/jazz, and that using vocals stagnates the listener’s ability to drift into another perspective of what is being heard.”
Do you believe in pragmatism and what the philosopher Henry James stood for: truth is the utmost goal but our upbringing rules our version of truth?
“This is true. I believe that mankind’s ability to define truths about the world, why we exist and where we are all going is determined by the roots that he/she comes from. Does this mean that even the soil is contaminated? Possibly so. For some reason, we tend to view ourselves as a phenomenon because the truth has either been withheld by a select few or not discovered yet. As a result of not knowing the truth, we’ve found ways to section ourselves away from each other. Division through different territories seems to be the most convenient, so a French person thinks he’s different from a Brazilian. In the view of an ant or an alien, it probably doesn’t really matter. Until mankind can look at themselves and others exactly as they are, James sadly stands correct.”
Is jazz the teacher?
“Yes, it is. But before one attends class, one should have a self-check. Learning music theory or non-theory requires almost complete attention and patience. Jazz does not reach out for the convenience of the listener – you must listen to it without prejudging what it’s supposed to be. By doing this, the listener might have chances to learn wonderful things about the universe and beyond.”
Does technology whet your appetite?
“Yes. Not at a level where I have to have any and every gadget available. When something comes out that I think is a step forward, nothing stands in my way of getting it. I have in the past gone to great lengths to get my hands on certain pieces of equipment.”
Has becoming a father changed your music?
“In all honesty, I have to say no. What fatherhood does is change the amount of time you have to think about and make music. I mean, when I have ideas about free-floating in deep, cold space only to be slowly pulled in an unknown direction by the tail of a massive passing meteorite, no, I’m not thinking about fatherhood: the fantasy stays the same.“
Where is it better to live, musically and intellectually: the US or Europe?
“Musically, right now, definitely in the US. Here was the birth of jazz, blues, rock, hip hop, house, techno and so many other genres. Intellectually, at this time, I have to say Europe. Right now here in the US, there are so many things happening that are beyond logical belief. America has become a vast sea of contradiction and seems to be spiralling off to a point of no return. Unfortunately Europeans can’t see the US media on a day-to-day basis to witness how bizarre it has all become.”
Do you still have the passion when you DJ: does it set the hairs off on the back of your neck?
“The feeling never changes. I still get very excited and can very easily lose myself in the music.”
Turbo or normally-aspirated?
“Turbo, of course.”
Dave Clarke by Jeff Mills
What are the special things in music you look for to determine whether it should be heard through your DJ sets? How would you describe a ‘good track’?
“To make it into my DJ sets it should have power, emotion – preferably dark – and great production. A good track should encapsulate all of those and present something original, whether instrumentally or with lyrics.”
If you could go back to the beginning of your career as a DJ, what, if anything, would you change and why?
“Absolutely nothing. I am happy where I am at and I have got here because of the journey I have taken. The only thing I wish could have changed outside of my own career was that DJs should have been seen as musicians at a much earlier stage. The Musicians Union looked down on what we were trying to do and that probably had some consequence on some of my earlier contracts.”
Is making music and DJing a lifelong plan for you?
“Tricky question. As I have always felt I was born to do what I do, I hope to be still making music for a long time to come. I have always had a fantasy of retiring to Bermuda and making reggae in my fifties and sixties but that’s still a very, very long time away and life has a habit of changing your plans. With regards to DJing I’m still young so I can take the punishing and gruelling schedules that sometimes present themselves. Whether or not I still can when I am 40 and over remains to be seen, but I’m sure if I still love the music that will give me the strength to share it the world over.”
On your latest album, which would you say is the track that best describes your personality, and why?
“Tough one! ‘Blue On Blue’ is a strong one – Mr Lif did an amazing job with the lyrics and delivery but it expresses some very strong emotions that I can feel. ‘Addendum’ had a sample on there from Patti Smith that again made the track personal to me. Unfortunately the sample had to come off but the track is still strong. ‘Stay Out Of The Light’ would be a good representation of the darker side of me and ‘Deo Gratias’ would represent a lighter, more hopeful side. All the other tracks are all about my club culture, but I really feel to have a track that describes my personality as a whole could never happen.”
Other than music, do you use any other form of art/communication to express your ideas?
“I cannot draw or paint and feel uncomfortable writing personal things, so music is my only artistic catalyst.”
What makes Dave Clarke tick?
“Many different things: emotion, honesty, excitement when experiencing new things, seeing nature, getting angry at politicians, technology, design…”
How in your opinion does music serve the world best?
“It opens ears, minds and eyes without language and prejudice, it lets people live a far more fulfilling life even if they have problems they can’t express. It bookmarks occasions and when played later on in life helps us to remember them in vivid colours.”
What is the best advice you would give to someone ten years younger than yourself?
“If they were starting out in this business it would be that they should do it for the passion, firstly; get a good manager, agent and lawyer behind you so they can worry about the side of the business that detracts from the music; and believe in yourself in an honest way and don’t believe what you read about yourself in the press – good or bad.”
What has music taught you?
“Everything – music is an encyclopaedia to emotion.”