Simon
2004-06-28, 01:26 PM
“We thought Arthur Baker was going to be this technological genius creating these dance records and really he was just a punk let loose in a recording studio who didn’t know what the fucking hell he was doing – he was just pushing sliders up and down.”
Chatting to Skrufff a couple of years back, New Order’s bassist Peter Hook admitted that they were surprised when they first met New York electro pioneer Arthur Baker in the early 80s in New York.
“We were terrified of going over there to meet him but when we got there we realized he was just like us,” he recalled.
“We thought he was the ‘bee’s knees’(brilliant- Northern Ed). And he thought we were! He’s still a great friend, he’s a great guy.”
And 20 years after he helped kick-start one of the world’s key electronic groups, it’s fitting that Baker sits right at the centre of the 80s flavoured new electro scene that’s currently revitalising clubland in London and beyond. And it’s also fitting that’s he’s sitting in his recently opened New York style diner Harlem in London, on a hot summer’s day discussing his fast growing club concept Return to New York.
Opening two years ago with instantly successful electro-themed nights at the plush Great Eastern Hotel, RTNY has now expanded to the cavernous arches club SE One, and on July 3rd and 4th becomes a 2 night affair for the very first time
“It seemed like a good idea, it’s the 4th July weekend (US Independence Day) and I wanted to mark that but I also wanted to do a Saturday night,” says Arthur.
“Everyone’s going to get a wristband so they can leave and come back on Saturday and Sunday and I figure most people will do that. We’re going to keep one room open for the entire time, but not the entire complex. For example, the Cock room is going to be opening at 4pm on Sunday afternoon, running to 3am. Junior Vasquez is playing from 9 until 3am. It’s really a two day event.”
Skrufff (Jonty Skrufff): How much is there a masterplan or particular concept behind Return To New York?
Arthur Baker: “We try to keep it consistent by bringing over a hip hop DJ from America each time; for example, at the last one we had Mark Ronson, we’ve had Mantronik previously. And we’ve just started doing house music at the last party with Todd (Terry) and Marshall (Jefferson) to make better use of the new venue. When we were at the Great Eastern Hotel, we were limited because we only had one big room there, which was always electro and that’s why we moved to SE One, though we’ll probably do parties at Great Eastern again. They thought RTNY was too big for the hotel. So that’s why we’ve opened up to house but I’ve tried to go more retro house, so this time, we’ve got the Hacienda Room for example, featuring Mike Pickering and Graeme Park, who haven’t played together in London together in years, if ever. And we’ve also got Shaun Ryder, Bez and Mani.”
Skrufff: The electro room at the last party was busier than the house room for Todd Terry and Marshall Jefferson . .
Arthur Baker: “Our audience is definitely electro; the whole idea of Return To New York was to present a tribute to the past and the future, bringing in legends alongside new names. It’s good to let the kids hear what was going on before alongside new live bands. We have Pink Grease and the other special we’ve got for the next party is Mick Jones and Tony James’ new band Carbon Silicon. They wouldn’t let us use their names on the flyer (Mick Jones is from the Clash) so the name of the band’s there, but no-one knows who the fuck Carbon Silicon are. They’re supposed to sound much like Big Audio Dynamite but more song-y.”
Skrufff: What do you make of the vibe in London at the moment?
Arthur Baker: “The vibe’s good in London because you know what, you couldn’t get 2,500 people to a party like Return To New York, in New York right now. I think people are much more open to it here, the vibe’s coming back a little in New York but there’s nowhere like Fabric in New York, for example. Fabric’s a commercial club but they cross the boundaries with their musical programming; they put electro alongside drum & night on the same night. If I owned a club, it would probably be close to what Fabric is, though to be honest, the venue’s a little strange. And our crowd is more in fashion and more drawn from people making music, whereas Fabric seems to have taken over from the Ministry type crowd, even though they’re more willing to experiment musically. I think we attract more trend-setter types.”
Skrufff: you were clubbing in Manhattan during its heyday in the late 70s/ early 80s, what do you make of the Bloomberg/ Giuliani crackdown on New York clubs?
Arthur Baker: “It seems the crackdown’s happening everywhere, for example you need special licenses to dance in pubs here in London. Some of it is down to Giuliani truly trying to clean up New York, which in a way he really did. Put it this way; if you had money, or a family or more of a middle-class lifestyle then you loved Giuliani because he succeeded in cleaning up the city. But if you were living in The Village (Greenwich Village) and you wanted to go out and party then you hated him. He figured clubs mean drugs and drugs mean everything that goes along with them, so he made a decision (to crack down on clubs). I don’t live in New York but when I go back it seems like a nicer safer environment, even before September 11. There are less bums (vagrants- slang Ed) on the street.”
Skrufff: How has the clean-up affected the nightlife vibe there in your view?
Athur Baker: “Well I think you can have both, and New York has always been seen as the nightlife capital of the world. That’s coming back a little because there are some new clubs opening but they’re more geared towards the Bridge & Tunnel (suburban- slang ed) mentality. New York’s the biggest city in the world and right now there’s not one good underground club there. There’s lots of good music being made in New York but there’s nowhere to go there to hear that music. There’s nowhere for a lot of the great New York DJs to play either. Guys like Junior Sanchez; the places he was playing have closed down. I definitely think New York is ready for a cool club and I’d been looking into that before September 11 then after that it all got a little weird there, so I refocused over here in London. The new big clubs I’ve been to there have been horrible.”
Skrufff: Do you see clubs about being more than just entertainment?
Arthur Baker: “Club culture has always been bigger in England than in America. Hip hop became the pop music in America whereas here dance music made the charts, people like Steve Silk Hurley and Marshall Jefferson has top 5 hits which would never happen in America. In America, dance music was always thought of as gay music because that’s where it came from, whereas in the UK they embraced it, certainly more than in America. When I started going out to clubs in ‘72/73 and started getting into Philly disco there weren’t any straight clubs around, there were really none.”
Skrufff: When did it spread beyond just gay clubs?
Arthur Baker: “It was in 1976 when Saturday Night Fever took off that everything changed and that’s actually the only time when dance music really took off in America, because after that there was a backlash again. By the end of the 70s, except for New York with clubs like Studio 54 and Chicago and Detroit, it was dead everywhere else again. If you went to LA there literally weren’t any clubs. Then gradually it started up again. I think that underground/ overground cycle will always exist for dance culture in America. The difference in England is that it seems pretty constant, it never disappears from the mainstream completely because the pop mainstream is always borrowing from the dance culture. What hip hop is to America, dance culture is in England, and Europe too.”
Skrufff: You’ve brought London gay promoters the Cock onboard for the next event, do you see gay/ straight culture merging here at all
Arthur Baker: “I think we’ve always had a mixed crowd at our parties, we’ve always had a decent percentage of gay people so I figured that because I was bringing Junior (Vasquez) in anyway, it made sense to bring the Cock in to help promote it.”
Skrufff: How do you view the ageing factor in clubbing?
Arthur Baker: “Return To New York has always been about attracting people from different age groups. A lot of dance culture these days is also about old music being recycled, people are starting to play the classics more. If someone is 50 and they used to go out in the 80s, if they go out today they can hear lots of familiar tracks. To give you an example; Mark Kamens, who used to DJ at Danceteria in ‘82 ,came to Paris with me recently when I was playing with Felix Da Housecat. Felix was playing his set and literally five of the first eight records Felix played were tracks that Mark used to play at Danceteria. Mark was like, ‘this is my set from Danceteria’ and I said ‘well, dust down your records’. He played in New York a couple of years ago and it was horrible because he was playing deep house records and a lot of crap and I said to him ‘what are you playing? Get your old records, mix them up with the few new good ones coming out’ and he’s basically gonna’ start doing that now. Lots of the new music is reminiscent of the old stuff from the 80s. That’s good and bad because it draws you in.”
Return To New York runs from 9pm July 3 straight though until 1am on Monday 5th with headline guests including Carbon/ Silicon (aka Mick Jones from the Clash and Tony James), Pink Grease, Junior Vasquez, Graeme Park and Mike Pickering, Tasty Tim & Princess Julia, Erol Alkan, Headman etc etc. Weekend passes cost £28)
Related Link: www.returntonewyork.net (http://www.returntonewyork.net/)
Chatting to Skrufff a couple of years back, New Order’s bassist Peter Hook admitted that they were surprised when they first met New York electro pioneer Arthur Baker in the early 80s in New York.
“We were terrified of going over there to meet him but when we got there we realized he was just like us,” he recalled.
“We thought he was the ‘bee’s knees’(brilliant- Northern Ed). And he thought we were! He’s still a great friend, he’s a great guy.”
And 20 years after he helped kick-start one of the world’s key electronic groups, it’s fitting that Baker sits right at the centre of the 80s flavoured new electro scene that’s currently revitalising clubland in London and beyond. And it’s also fitting that’s he’s sitting in his recently opened New York style diner Harlem in London, on a hot summer’s day discussing his fast growing club concept Return to New York.
Opening two years ago with instantly successful electro-themed nights at the plush Great Eastern Hotel, RTNY has now expanded to the cavernous arches club SE One, and on July 3rd and 4th becomes a 2 night affair for the very first time
“It seemed like a good idea, it’s the 4th July weekend (US Independence Day) and I wanted to mark that but I also wanted to do a Saturday night,” says Arthur.
“Everyone’s going to get a wristband so they can leave and come back on Saturday and Sunday and I figure most people will do that. We’re going to keep one room open for the entire time, but not the entire complex. For example, the Cock room is going to be opening at 4pm on Sunday afternoon, running to 3am. Junior Vasquez is playing from 9 until 3am. It’s really a two day event.”
Skrufff (Jonty Skrufff): How much is there a masterplan or particular concept behind Return To New York?
Arthur Baker: “We try to keep it consistent by bringing over a hip hop DJ from America each time; for example, at the last one we had Mark Ronson, we’ve had Mantronik previously. And we’ve just started doing house music at the last party with Todd (Terry) and Marshall (Jefferson) to make better use of the new venue. When we were at the Great Eastern Hotel, we were limited because we only had one big room there, which was always electro and that’s why we moved to SE One, though we’ll probably do parties at Great Eastern again. They thought RTNY was too big for the hotel. So that’s why we’ve opened up to house but I’ve tried to go more retro house, so this time, we’ve got the Hacienda Room for example, featuring Mike Pickering and Graeme Park, who haven’t played together in London together in years, if ever. And we’ve also got Shaun Ryder, Bez and Mani.”
Skrufff: The electro room at the last party was busier than the house room for Todd Terry and Marshall Jefferson . .
Arthur Baker: “Our audience is definitely electro; the whole idea of Return To New York was to present a tribute to the past and the future, bringing in legends alongside new names. It’s good to let the kids hear what was going on before alongside new live bands. We have Pink Grease and the other special we’ve got for the next party is Mick Jones and Tony James’ new band Carbon Silicon. They wouldn’t let us use their names on the flyer (Mick Jones is from the Clash) so the name of the band’s there, but no-one knows who the fuck Carbon Silicon are. They’re supposed to sound much like Big Audio Dynamite but more song-y.”
Skrufff: What do you make of the vibe in London at the moment?
Arthur Baker: “The vibe’s good in London because you know what, you couldn’t get 2,500 people to a party like Return To New York, in New York right now. I think people are much more open to it here, the vibe’s coming back a little in New York but there’s nowhere like Fabric in New York, for example. Fabric’s a commercial club but they cross the boundaries with their musical programming; they put electro alongside drum & night on the same night. If I owned a club, it would probably be close to what Fabric is, though to be honest, the venue’s a little strange. And our crowd is more in fashion and more drawn from people making music, whereas Fabric seems to have taken over from the Ministry type crowd, even though they’re more willing to experiment musically. I think we attract more trend-setter types.”
Skrufff: you were clubbing in Manhattan during its heyday in the late 70s/ early 80s, what do you make of the Bloomberg/ Giuliani crackdown on New York clubs?
Arthur Baker: “It seems the crackdown’s happening everywhere, for example you need special licenses to dance in pubs here in London. Some of it is down to Giuliani truly trying to clean up New York, which in a way he really did. Put it this way; if you had money, or a family or more of a middle-class lifestyle then you loved Giuliani because he succeeded in cleaning up the city. But if you were living in The Village (Greenwich Village) and you wanted to go out and party then you hated him. He figured clubs mean drugs and drugs mean everything that goes along with them, so he made a decision (to crack down on clubs). I don’t live in New York but when I go back it seems like a nicer safer environment, even before September 11. There are less bums (vagrants- slang Ed) on the street.”
Skrufff: How has the clean-up affected the nightlife vibe there in your view?
Athur Baker: “Well I think you can have both, and New York has always been seen as the nightlife capital of the world. That’s coming back a little because there are some new clubs opening but they’re more geared towards the Bridge & Tunnel (suburban- slang ed) mentality. New York’s the biggest city in the world and right now there’s not one good underground club there. There’s lots of good music being made in New York but there’s nowhere to go there to hear that music. There’s nowhere for a lot of the great New York DJs to play either. Guys like Junior Sanchez; the places he was playing have closed down. I definitely think New York is ready for a cool club and I’d been looking into that before September 11 then after that it all got a little weird there, so I refocused over here in London. The new big clubs I’ve been to there have been horrible.”
Skrufff: Do you see clubs about being more than just entertainment?
Arthur Baker: “Club culture has always been bigger in England than in America. Hip hop became the pop music in America whereas here dance music made the charts, people like Steve Silk Hurley and Marshall Jefferson has top 5 hits which would never happen in America. In America, dance music was always thought of as gay music because that’s where it came from, whereas in the UK they embraced it, certainly more than in America. When I started going out to clubs in ‘72/73 and started getting into Philly disco there weren’t any straight clubs around, there were really none.”
Skrufff: When did it spread beyond just gay clubs?
Arthur Baker: “It was in 1976 when Saturday Night Fever took off that everything changed and that’s actually the only time when dance music really took off in America, because after that there was a backlash again. By the end of the 70s, except for New York with clubs like Studio 54 and Chicago and Detroit, it was dead everywhere else again. If you went to LA there literally weren’t any clubs. Then gradually it started up again. I think that underground/ overground cycle will always exist for dance culture in America. The difference in England is that it seems pretty constant, it never disappears from the mainstream completely because the pop mainstream is always borrowing from the dance culture. What hip hop is to America, dance culture is in England, and Europe too.”
Skrufff: You’ve brought London gay promoters the Cock onboard for the next event, do you see gay/ straight culture merging here at all
Arthur Baker: “I think we’ve always had a mixed crowd at our parties, we’ve always had a decent percentage of gay people so I figured that because I was bringing Junior (Vasquez) in anyway, it made sense to bring the Cock in to help promote it.”
Skrufff: How do you view the ageing factor in clubbing?
Arthur Baker: “Return To New York has always been about attracting people from different age groups. A lot of dance culture these days is also about old music being recycled, people are starting to play the classics more. If someone is 50 and they used to go out in the 80s, if they go out today they can hear lots of familiar tracks. To give you an example; Mark Kamens, who used to DJ at Danceteria in ‘82 ,came to Paris with me recently when I was playing with Felix Da Housecat. Felix was playing his set and literally five of the first eight records Felix played were tracks that Mark used to play at Danceteria. Mark was like, ‘this is my set from Danceteria’ and I said ‘well, dust down your records’. He played in New York a couple of years ago and it was horrible because he was playing deep house records and a lot of crap and I said to him ‘what are you playing? Get your old records, mix them up with the few new good ones coming out’ and he’s basically gonna’ start doing that now. Lots of the new music is reminiscent of the old stuff from the 80s. That’s good and bad because it draws you in.”
Return To New York runs from 9pm July 3 straight though until 1am on Monday 5th with headline guests including Carbon/ Silicon (aka Mick Jones from the Clash and Tony James), Pink Grease, Junior Vasquez, Graeme Park and Mike Pickering, Tasty Tim & Princess Julia, Erol Alkan, Headman etc etc. Weekend passes cost £28)
Related Link: www.returntonewyork.net (http://www.returntonewyork.net/)