Sasha - Involver: First impressions

[DJZION]

Love Sasha, have been a fan of his stuff for a long long time.
Luckily, I just got this promo from a friend. I hate to say it, but its a huge disappointment in my eyes. I want to say this is just a first impression and this cd could grow on me who knows. But for now, heres my review... Is it bad? Not at all. Is it really good though, does it stand out? Nope. To me, not a single track on here is essential (in fact I won't buy any on vinyl if they came out). The percussion in these tracks just sound dated. The breakbeats sound so similar in most of the songs, that it really sounds like 1 long dull song. Along with the thin airy minimal synths, the mix gets boring very fast. There's also a lot of vocals which I'm not a fan of. Lots of parts seem "cheesy" even. I think Sasha is at his best when his sound is "dark" and "brooding". Just my opinion. The end of the cd gets worse and worse, as the songs begin to sound a lot like rock music. Too many guitars for me.
I dunno, guess you guys will have to see for yourselves. Thumbs down from me though.

[neuroticinsight]

sounds right up my alley. too many people in the prog scene are stuck in the late 90s/early 00s sound imo

[original2k]

man thats sad, i was soooooooooooooooo ready for involver too, i've been hyped since christmas waiting for it.....ahh well, i'll give it a listen and hope for the best

[DJZION]

sounds right up my alley. too many people in the prog scene are stuck in the late 90s/early 00s sound imo

I like 2004 Progressive sounds :P
Honestly, this sounds more like 1994 than 2004.

[WilliamDieter]

I like 2004 Progressive sounds :P
Honestly, this sounds more like 1994 than 2004.



I like everything as long as it isn't boring. It can be minimal, but it's gotta be musical. I think alot of the newer sounds are more minimal and lack the music.

If this cd is more like 94 then I think it would be awesome......but i've got a feeling it's 2004 trying to be 1994....which usually ends up sucking ass.

I personally don't like any of Sasha's new work. I think the last track I liked was Expander. Before that it was Ohmna. Before that it was Hysterix. But I think that has more to do with Charlie May than Sasha himself.


On the flip side of this, I dropped $200 on records today, man there is a ton of good music out right now.....some of the best i've heard in a few years to be honest.

[DJZION]

I agree. To me Progressive has had an amazing recovery in 2004 for me. Im buying SO many records these days, while in 2003 I was struggling to find tunes. Unfortunately by my 94 reference, I meant the quality and ingenuity of the percussion. The melody is totally non-existant. Im afraid it lacks in both departments for me.

[jadye527]

I think this CD needs some work. I will listen to it a couple more times and see, but right out of the box Im not feelin it.

[neuroticinsight]

progressive today is awesome. is it similar to the first 4 or so tracks on mm2? if so, or ANYTHING like sasha/digweed from 94 it will rock out woot

[siren303]

I agree. To me Progressive has had an amazing recovery in 2004 for me. Im buying SO many records these days, while in 2003 I was struggling to find tunes. Unfortunately by my 94 reference, I meant the quality and ingenuity of the percussion. The melody is totally non-existant. Im afraid it lacks in both departments for me.
Ditto...
Some people seem to believe that progressive hit its peak in 1999 and has just been recycling the same shit since then. To a point I can understand that view; however, this year has been exceptional. I figure its like every edm genre - it goes in cycles.

[neuroticinsight]

yeah it has. though i don't understand why people don't like it when someone established does something different. why would you want him to do a mix of a bunch of songs that you have, have heard a bunch, or sound like the big sound at the time? i think this mix is going to be amazing precisely because its not full of the same old current sound (though the current stuff rocks). its pushing the envelope like digweed did with mm2 and i think that rocks. though i certainly hope his edit of cyberwhore is better than the original lol

[NIN75]

i'm checkin it out now-its only OK so far.

[DJZION]

My point is that its not pushing any envelopes nor bringing anythign new or interesting to the table. Your problem is you assume Sasha is cutting edge before even listening to it. Lets wait till you actually listen to this, then Ill be curious to your reactions.
Don't give DJs the benefit of the doubt. Sasha's time I believe has passed. Hopefully though I'm wrong.

[Yakko Red]

I didn't think too highly of it either, it had a lot of breaky elements to it and there wasn't any track that really stood out among the others. If anything, it's good for background noise and that's about it.

[Bedrock Science]

Lots of breaks, and a few euphoric trancey/house parts. Its pretty good, seems more of a chill out mode mix. There are a couple songs in the mix that are pretty awesome. Sasha has really changed since his days with his other GU cd's, GU - Ibiza, now that is pure gold. Airdrawndagger was a letdown to some, but I think it was a very respectable artist album.

[: ORI :]

Sasha has really changed since his days with his other GU cd's.

yeah...apparently hes an Electro DJ now.

[rajdeep]

Read the interview here for confirmation on the fact he's been exploring the elctro sounds http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38453

[: ORI :]

to each his own, but as he loses interest in progressive and smooth mixing, I am losing interest in him. Its not like he is pioneering Electro. I mean the tracks he was playing at sonar....Spiggy has been rocking for months now, adn doing a much better job IMO. I also think Deep Dish is playing electro now.

[rajdeep]

What? Don't tell me you aren't going to hop onto the bandwagon?! Come on man, you know we play whatever Sasha plays. :wink:

[badkitty3804]

Everyone's catching the electro bug.

:D

There's nothing wrong with someone changing it up, but you can't expect them to be masters of it right away. :shrug:

[cleophite]

it had a lot of breaky elements to it. rumor is he played one of the fuzz's original tracks when he spun in NYC a few days ago :D

[Simon]

I caught sander playing a few of my fav electrotunes on Friday too.... ;-)

Can Anybody post a track listing for this new sasha mix?

[badkitty3804]

01 GRAND NATIONAL - TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES
02 SHPONGLE - DORSET PERCEPTION
03 PETTER - THESE DAYS
04 UNKLE - WHAT ARE YOU TO ME?
05 THE YOUNGSTERS - SMILE
06 SPOOKY - BELONG
07 UNKLE - IN A STATE
08 LOSTEP - BURMA
09 FELIX DA HOUSECAT - WATCHING CARS GO BY
10 ULRICH SCHNAUSS - ON MY OWN

[Simon]

10 tracks???????

Thats it????

WTF!

thats lame as hell

[badkitty3804]

That's usually how it goes with Sasha. He's famous for cutting his sets short, why not his mixes :shrug:

[Yakko Red]

Everyone's catching the electro bug.

:D

There's nothing wrong with someone changing it up, but you can't expect them to be masters of it right away. :shrug:

I read this and all I could think of was....


What? Don't tell me you aren't going to hop onto the bandwagon?! Come on man, you know we play whatever Sasha plays. :wink:

...I've given Raj rep points for this. I'm going to drop this like I drop what I have to say about dnb and what not, in my opinion and that alone, electro drives me up a fucking wall. I think it's a huge bandwagon just like every genre is at one point in time, it's almost like you can see who the true heads are because they are those who don't genre hop WHEN a certain genre becomes the "in" thing.

There is nothing wrong with liking something or changing your style, but doing it in the middle of a movement where so many are touting it as the next big thing to me is a form of selling out.

Sasha wants to dip into electro? That's cool, but he just lost a fan, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, as everyone can plainly see Ori's post above.

Just my $.02

[Simon]

Before you decide to drop your support, did you actually hear him play on Saturday?

The reason I ask is that i find it pretty unfair to dog someone or something you haven't heard for yourself because its been given a label.

Recent interview with Sasha:

Skrufff: You said in a recent interview ‘I love that punk-house-electro sound’, how’s that affecting your DJing?

Sacha: “The nature of my DJ sets is changing from that smooth linear mixing style that we perfected in the Twilo days, when we’d be going on for ten hours, playing long, long sets. I don’t have a residency like that anymore or an outlet to play that kind of music and, to be honest, that music doesn’t really do it for me any more. I liked those dark minimal sounds back then because I had a place every month to go and play them and they really worked at Twilo and it fitted the club. But I think right now, I’m playing shorter sets of music that’s much more mashed up and eclectic.

I’ve got nothing against mixing perfectly still but the nature of the songs means it’s different. I’m also ditching vinyl and CDs to go out on the road using my computer and that’s going to allow me to mix anything with everything. I’m still interested in pursuing the perfect mix but I think the sounds I’m now throwing into that mix are becoming broader.”

Skrufff: Have you paid much attention to the electroclash phenomenon?

Sasha: “I’m always terrified of labels like that, whenever a movement gets a label it usually heralds its own funeral. I think it’s really exciting, lots of stuff coming out of Germany that has that electro, punky edge; it seems to be very now, even though it has a retro feel.”

Skrufff: Armin Van Buuren talks openly of recapturing an early 90s sound, what do you make of that stance?

Sasha: “Personally I’m actively trying to move away from that style, those records worked at that time but I think it’s time to move on- maybe I’m looking back to ‘85 instead of ’95 at the moment.”
------

You know what though, Sasha became legendary for his old Acid house stuff, so it makes perfect since.

Regardless, everyone who went to Sonar seems to have had a Blast becouse he rocked them, not becouse it was (insert lablewhore)

Anyway, Electro proabably still isn't the best wat to try to catagorize his new stuff. (It sure isn't mine)

[rajdeep]

electro drives me up a fucking wall. I think it's a huge bandwagon just like every genre is at one point in time, it's almost like you can see who the true heads are because they are those who don't genre hop WHEN a certain genre becomes the "in" thing.

Sasha wants to dip into electro? That's cool, but he just lost a fan, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, as everyone can plainly see Ori's post above.
Thanks for the points! :D

Though I may not necessarily follow Sasha on his electro-endeavour I'd definitely be curious to see what direction he gives the genre. He's always been a major factor to creating a whole new sub-genre that I may actually land up liking that style of electro.

While I'm still more of a Progressive fan I was definitely nodding my head to what he played on Sat. Sure, everytime he played something more proggy I would bust a move or 2, but the overall night was excellent in the sounds he put together.

I think there's a lot to expect from Sasha now, we'll leave it to time to see whether it's good or bad.

[Yakko Red]

Before you decide to drop your support, did you actually hear him play on Saturday?

The reason I ask is that i find it pretty unfair to dog someone or something you haven't heard for yourself because its been given a label.



Who's dogging on him? I'm just stating that I'm not racing to the nearest club(including Sonar) he's going to be at because his current musical direction is not of my taste.

[: ORI :]

Before you decide to drop your support, did you actually hear him play on Saturday?


yes, and....

to each his own, but as he loses interest in progressive and smooth mixing, I am losing interest in him. Its not like he is pioneering Electro. I mean the tracks he was playing at sonar....Spiggy has been rocking for months now, and doing a much better job IMO.

[iminxtc]

:sadblue:

it has its moments... i didnt turn it off or throw it out the window

[maynard]

I also think Deep Dish is playing electro now.

They better not be playing any of that shit next month.

[: ORI :]

well they were rocking it when they played last played at insommnia

[DJZION]

I pretty much agree with Ori and Catalyst. Im anti-fad. I don't like how the EDM world is constantly trying to find the new "in" thing. I understand how constantly evolving is important but Dance music just takes it to a "fad" level and it all seems like a marketing ploy. To me, Progressive is still relevant as fuck, I'm still nowhere near sick of it. I think the production is getting better and theres tons you can still do with it. If a DJ like Sasha is truly bored of it fine, but it seems like ALL of the Progressive guys are moving away from the sound at once. And even the PRODIGY are doing electro now. Unforuntately I loathe Electro , I Loathe retro, I'm all "futuristic" sounds. This whole thing is bad news for me.

[: ORI :]

There areso many amazing progressive/breaks producers out right now its retarded. I happen to think it is far from boring and getting more atmosphereic/intelligent sounding. If Sasha finds that boring its understandable. Huge audiences want what the in-thing is and i guess the top DJs have to play whats in to keep the crowds. Honestly...I would much rather pay $15 on 2 nigths to see someone like luke chable or habersham play a smaller club, than pay $25 to hear Sasha bang electro one night for a mass of people. I dont like to sound like im bashing electro because im not....but I dont think Sasha is really breaking any ground here and is crazy if he thinks progressive isnt going anywhere.

[: ORI :]

still...has anyone got a link to the production credits for Involver yet?

[spiggums]

I pretty much agree with Ori and Catalyst. Im anti-fad. I don't like how the EDM world is constantly trying to find the new "in" thing. I understand how constantly evolving is important but Dance music just takes it to a "fad" level and it all seems like a marketing ploy. To me, Progressive is still relevant as fuck, I'm still nowhere near sick of it. I think the production is getting better and theres tons you can still do with it. If a DJ like Sasha is truly bored of it fine, but it seems like ALL of the Progressive guys are moving away from the sound at once. And even the PRODIGY are doing electro now. Unforuntately I loathe Electro , I Loathe retro, I'm all "futuristic" sounds. This whole thing is bad news for me.
You're entitled to not like a direction a dj and/or producer is taking...

However, to term it a "Fad" is a bit off. You don't know the motivation for DJs making these changes in their sound... while you might not be a fan of it and might not be bored of what they used to do... there's no saying that they're not... calling it a "fad" only trivializes it sounds like a desperate attempt to affix a negative attribute to something that you're seeing as a threat to the welfare of your genre of choice (please note the use of the term "sounds like")

Quite frankly, the fact of the matter is, the sound that's being labelled "electro" these days is really the only thing I see producing anything unique and fresh (also note here the fact that I'm not saying it's the only thing "good") so, to me, it makes perfect sense that some of these more established progressive djs are incorporating more of this sound in their sets.

[DJZION]

Thats a very biased opinion Spiggy since you spin Electro. To me, Sasha changing to electro doesn't make it a fad. Everybody changing to electro does. It can't be coincidence that ALL of a sudden, EVERYBODY "discovered" electro, all for the first time, all simultaneously. I just don't buy it. I'm sure electro had its scene and people way before Sasha "found" it; its not like its brand new music that came out of nowhere. And I'm speaking without bias because I remember when Trance hit its peak and all of a sudden, EVERYBODY abandoned Trance and went to Progressive. Now, many of those DJ's are back to Trance because Progressive isn't "COOL" anymore according to the mags. To me, this shows its more about $ than spinning what you feel most. I dunno, to me its just obvious that the sheep mentality exists even in the EDM world, and its quite depressing. Its human nature I guess.

[DJZION]

Oh ya 1 more thing. I will wager with anybody, that this whole electro obsession will be gone within 1 yr (the original electro people will still like it , but not the new people who just hopped on the bandwagon). I called it with "Garage" and I was right.

[Simon]

Electro isn't cool in the mag's anymore! ;-)

1 point i have to make here is that some of these guys that are playing "electrowhatever" don't even realize that those records have been labeled as such and do it uncausiously.

otherwise, im done with this thread.

[zartan]

i love sasha and i hate him not spinnign dark prog but i can imagine getting tired of spinning the same kind of set after 10 years...

[spiggums]

Thats a very biased opinion Spiggy since you spin Electro. To me, Sasha changing to electro doesn't make it a fad. Everybody changing to electro does. It can't be coincidence that ALL of a sudden, EVERYBODY "discovered" electro, all for the first time, all simultaneously. I just don't buy it. I'm sure electro had its scene and people way before Sasha "found" it; its not like its brand new music that came out of nowhere. And I'm speaking without bias because I remember when Trance hit its peak and all of a sudden, EVERYBODY abandoned Trance and went to Progressive. Now, many of those DJ's are back to Trance because Progressive isn't "COOL" anymore according to the mags. To me, this shows its more about $ than spinning what you feel most. I dunno, to me its just obvious that the sheep mentality exists even in the EDM world, and its quite depressing. Its human nature I guess.
but what you're missing is that I also enjoy progressive and trance... it's not like I have a blind eye to that part of the EDM world...

Question: have you ever heard anything by Tiefschwarz?

since they're the name that I've seen/heard of prog and house DJs cite the most... I'm curious how familiar you are with what they do...

[neuroticinsight]

you people are being rediculous. i for one, love involver. it is one of the most beautiful mixes i've heard in a LONG time. i don't care who really produced it. its great music. as to the electro "fad". ELECTROCLASH is deffo a fad a la garage. but ELECTRO is not a fad. there is a huge difference. i for one, am starting to get a little tired of progressive. i love it, but it is just not doing it for me like it used to. i agree that there is some amazing amazing prog coming out these days, but in all honesty a huge amount of it is sounding the same to me. prog breaks is just about the only new prog sound that i'm really into. a lot of the prog house is definately awesome, but most of the good stuff is early in the night type stuff. just give something new a chance is all i say. don't listen to something one time, hear that its different, and abandon it. the main reason the scene is shit right now is that no one wants to hear anything new. all the prog heads and dnb heads ans breaks heads and whatnot just want more of the same. everyone is scared to try something new.

[frostybeverage]

[frostybeverage]

and yet somehow the earth keeps on spinning....

[NIN75]

my new opinion of involver-it totally rocks-listened to it about 10 times now-seems to get better with every listen.

[Sanctifyd]

I got the Involver promo a couple of weeks ago and i've prolly listened to it 6 or 8 or so times. A couple of times cause I couldn't sleep. It helped. Bout sums up what I think of Involver. I can't say I've been too much of a fan of Sasha... ever. Or progressive in general for that matter. I've always been a trance head... energizing stuff. This album just bores me to death.

Everyone has different tastes, I guess.

[dc28639p]

I just briefly scanned over this thread...and the vibe seems to be pretty negative. I understand where everyone is coming from. I happen to think that Involver is extremely good and I just saw Sasha in dj at crobar NYC, and I think that show was great...I def. thought the show was better than Sasha & Digweed this past March in NYC.
I understand your feelings of Involve being a boring album. But I think a lot people are getting way too critical these days. I think a lot of people should try to have no expectations when they put in a CD unless they have heard descriptions from a credible source (credible sources are different for everyone) because if you are in the mood for something really "jumpy" and you put the cd in and its downtempo then you are put in a negative mood and have a negative impression of the music.
That is just one suggestions...not a big deal though
I think in listening to involver that a lot of thought went into the cd, it has an extremely nice groove element to it.....and being that every track is somewhat personal to Sasha being that he remixed every track (not the first one to every do this...) we should just try to listen, enjoy and understand the point of view of the producer/dj. The album presents some intelligent production, beautiful atmospheric sounds, nice groovy breaks, and just the aura of quality through the whole cd that is found in many other great productions.
we all know that the feel of most cds is different than the feel of being in an actual club hearing that dj play
When I saw Sasha play at Nation with Zabiela a couple of years ago, I thought that Sasha was boring, however it might have been good..i could have just been in a foul mood.
This last time in NY however I think he played great....he was only playing on cds which surprised me and didnt surprise me...but regardless it was great....he was ruff, funky, breaky, progressivy


well im done...and this prob makes no sense

[Oscar Rojas]

you people are being rediculous. i for one, love involver. it is one of the most beautiful mixes i've heard in a LONG time. i don't care who really produced it. its great music. as to the electro "fad". ELECTROCLASH is deffo a fad a la garage. but ELECTRO is not a fad. there is a huge difference. i for one, am starting to get a little tired of progressive. i love it, but it is just not doing it for me like it used to. i agree that there is some amazing amazing prog coming out these days, but in all honesty a huge amount of it is sounding the same to me. prog breaks is just about the only new prog sound that i'm really into. a lot of the prog house is definately awesome, but most of the good stuff is early in the night type stuff. just give something new a chance is all i say. don't listen to something one time, hear that its different, and abandon it. the main reason the scene is shit right now is that no one wants to hear anything new. all the prog heads and dnb heads ans breaks heads and whatnot just want more of the same. everyone is scared to try something new.


I agree 110% percent :bravo:

[djrollzroyce]

sasha aint da same no mo!.... lol well honestly it is the mood that makes the cd, and i got to admit i havent quite conjured up a mood to Involver yet... but ya got to see... i didnt like airdrawndagger at first either and now i got it in my car's 6 - disk

[NYGblue]

It stinks... i like some downtempo stuff, I like James Zabiela... Sasha just isn't what he was... Airdrawndagger was so damn good and this was like... a cheap sequel that most people will forget about.

[dc28639p]

Keep playin it...it will strike you one day out of the blue

Some real intelligent stuff......and after seein sasha in NY this last time...he definitely lives up to the hype

[: ORI :]

It stinks... i like some downtempo stuff, I like James Zabiela... Sasha just isn't what he was... Airdrawndagger was so damn good and this was like... a cheap sequel that most people will forget about.

Thats because they are only remixes. Im not sure if he had Charlie May and Junkie XL helping him in the studio this time. However......that Spooky remix is the bizzomb

[iminxtc]

yeah, the spookie remix is really good. i didnt like involver much at first... after about 35 listens, some of the tracks really do stick out in my mind and i cant say that its crap, although definatly not withstanding to my sasha standards

[NYGblue]

Keep playin it...it will strike you one day out of the blue

Some real intelligent stuff......and after seein sasha in NY this last time...he definitely lives up to the hype

I don't think so... like other people mentioned, some individual tracks arent bad. But they aren't great. Frankly for what Sasha has done in the past this isn't up to par. In fact regardless of who it would be, I wouldn't be particularly impressed. It isn't very forward thinking in my opinion. Progressive has seen better releases this year alone.

Personally I would love to see James Holden create an album on the level of Airdrawndagger. That guy produces intelligent progressive sounds.

[spiggums]

I don't think so... like other people mentioned, some individual tracks arent bad. But they aren't great. Frankly for what Sasha has done in the past this isn't up to par. In fact regardless of who it would be, I wouldn't be particularly impressed. It isn't very forward thinking in my opinion. Progressive has seen better releases this year alone.

Personally I would love to see James Holden create an album on the level of Airdrawndagger. That guy produces intelligent progressive sounds.
the more I read negative comments about this mix CD, the more I want to hear it...

cause I saw Sasha once... he bored the ever living shit out of me...

so if his old fans were into that... and they're not into this... this couldbe a positive thing!

[NYGblue]

Well I didn't see him, and if you like it Kudos to you mate... I like a lot of stuff others don't so nothing wrong with that.

[spiggums]

heh... yeah... just sayin from my perspective and all ;)

but I'll prolly never hear it... based off the fact that it takes a LOT for me to buy a commercial mix CD...

the only one I've really bought in the last six months was Ivan Smagghe's Suck My Deck... but then... that's a fucking amazing disc :)