Just another reason why underage drinking is bad at clubs [Archive]

EurotrashEve

2004-01-20, 12:41 AM

My old boss that I promoted for at the Depot in Baltimore is in huge trouble b/c a 17 year old used a fake ID to get in and drink...not only that she acted like a total lush and ended up doing a bit more then pressing charges..when it was her fault to begin with ..she should be the one in trouble don't you think.?

Anyway, now he is in jail and might get 10+ years depending on how the trial goes...Yet another reason why underagers shouldn't drink...you not only risk the clubs reputation but you can get the owner jailed 10+years by your stupidity and ignorance. Not to mention ruin the fun for others...(this guy is like family to me, so I'm upset)

Sorry, to sound like a hypocrite but it's 2004 times have changed and authority has grown stricter :redfu:

Please wait until your 21

Muramasa

2004-01-20, 12:49 AM

:nixo:

I'm thinking they should make some sort of scanner for IDs or something at the front door, to determine the authenticity of cards by reading the magnets or something. It might not stop someone from using their big brother/sister's ID, but I think it's worth the cut down at the very least.

And personally... I think someone with a fake ID needs to be stripped and beaten with broken broomsticks. Fucking children.
:ranton:

EurotrashEve

2004-01-20, 12:51 AM

yEAH BUT TECHNOLOGY ALWAYS HAS IT'S BUGS

Wedge

2004-01-20, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by tigerjunglist
:nixo:

I'm thinking they should make some sort of scanner for IDs or something at the front door, to determine the authenticity of cards by reading the magnets or something. It might not stop someone from using their big brother/sister's ID, but I think it's worth the cut down at the very least.

And personally... I think someone with a fake ID needs to be stripped and beaten with broken broomsticks. Fucking children.
:ranton:
They have these. http://www.scanmyid.com/page_10a.shtml

A.J.

2004-01-20, 01:03 AM

If someone uses a fake then they should be responsible for anythings that happens because of it

tranKwilized

2004-01-20, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Wedge

They have these. http://www.scanmyid.com/page_10a.shtml

..and I have these:

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/application.jsp?nodeId=04dxDDR8ttXDWd

:D

NicotinePatches

2004-01-20, 01:09 AM

i agree. they should be responsible for any trouble they get in. as well as in the first place they should be responsible drinkers.
i still think the drinking age should be 18 though....i know i've been drinking at least since 16....and no trouble yet. eh.

SIXTO

2004-01-20, 01:13 AM

Well I know I use to use a fake ID to get into bars and clubs. I mean thats what every younging wants to get their hands on. But for that guy to be responsible for everything is wrong. The girl should be held responsible. That is sad to hear, that someones life is ruined by some careless young girl. Kids are still going to use fake IDs, if you do just do it responsibly, and know that what you are doing is wrong and could cost someones else hard work to be flushed.

gotta-jibboo

2004-01-20, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by A.J.
If someone uses a fake then they should be responsible for anythings that happens because of it

that's the problem. by law, kids under 17 AREN'T responsible. their parents are. so i say we lock up the parents. maybe then they'll do a better job of keeping an eye on their kids.

-jb

Jungleluv09

2004-01-20, 01:23 AM

NicotinePatches

2004-01-20, 01:25 AM

haha true 17 yr olds shouldnt even be out...although I know most of us were... seriously, especially the early heads...like everyone was using fakes and such but just i think more responsibly. i dont see anything wrong w/a fake at all...if the kid is responsible and worthy of it. again, that guy shouldn't take the fall cuz...#1, im sure he wasn't the one checking the ids...that's really an idiotic law.

tranKwilized

2004-01-20, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by gotta-jibboo

that's the problem. by law, kids under 17 AREN'T responsible. their parents are. so i say we lock up the parents. maybe then they'll do a better job of keeping an eye on their kids.

-jb

That has got to me the most moronic thing I've heard all year.

Jungleluv09

2004-01-20, 01:32 AM

I remember when fake ID's from CHECKS CASHED used to work at clubs.

retail

2004-01-20, 01:42 AM

i don't see how the owner is responsible for this infraction... that's a seriously fucked up law. :sadblue:

The Drifter

2004-01-20, 01:48 AM

If I get caught serving a minor Its a 500$ fine to me no matter if you have a doorman or not.

BgBlkGuy

2004-01-20, 01:51 AM

From a person that is in the industry. Fake ID's are getting harder to detect. In some cases even scanners can be fooled. Personally I am pretty damn good at spotting a fake. This stupid girl however knew what she was doing. Im sorry but at 17 you have a good idea between right and wrong. Shit is all fucked up

Webslinger

2004-01-20, 02:24 AM

alright any time you go to a club. here is what you need to do you need to bring three forms of ID. Diver's Licence, Birth Certificate, and State ID.... Then you need to come three hours before a club opens so that you can get your information put in the clubs database.... You get a club ID card for that club so then they can scan you and say that you have met all the requirements to drink....Then you will need to have a legal documentation signed that says if any of this information you have provided is not legit you will be held accountable... Then they finger print you...

Ok now a reality check this would make so it would be near impossilbe for someone to cheat the system... We live in the land of freedom what club owner has the right to go to that extent to protect themselves... I would totally do this if I knew little punk ass kids would stop screwing up the fun for everyone else.... Due to the society we live in this will never happen... kids need to stop being babied and being held accountable for their actions you want to act like an adult fine you get to go to an adult prison... I do not care if you are 6 to 17 you break the law then you can suffer the consequences...

Synthetikid

2004-01-20, 03:41 AM

this is the EXACT reason i was so extremely pissed that a certain person who lied to me about her age- consider yourself warned.

mike48ride

2004-01-20, 04:04 AM

[i]

Please wait until your 21 [/B]

yes, or just drink sparkling cider...same thing, all the mental buzz, nun o' tha negative aspects!

LaZyCrZy

2004-01-20, 04:25 AM

or drink at home... like i do.

DeAtHmOnGeR bEaR

2004-01-20, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by NicotinePatches
haha true 17 yr olds shouldnt even be out...although I know most of us were... seriously, especially the early heads...like everyone was using fakes and such but just i think more responsibly. i dont see anything wrong w/a fake at all...if the kid is responsible and worthy of it. again, that guy shouldn't take the fall cuz...#1, im sure he wasn't the one checking the ids...that's really an idiotic law.

Honestly, I didn't get a fake ID cause I was afraid of misusing it :shrug:

So.... I waited. That way, when I got drunk and stupid and fell on top of people, atleast I'd be legal :tarvis:

obsol33t

2004-01-20, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by EurotrashEve
yEAH BUT TECHNOLOGY ALWAYS HAS IT'S BUGS and backdoors and loopholes waiting to be found and raped accordingly.

mike48ride

2004-01-20, 12:16 PM

haha........ :smile:

iminxtc

2004-01-20, 12:19 PM

he gets 10 years... thats bull shit i know people with worse charges... chillin at there moms house with a 40. yeah yeah....21.. i guess isnt a bad idea

GimmeABreakBeat

2004-01-20, 12:28 PM

anyone ever see the wall of shame at the other side in towson? :afterbuzz:

A.J. Inx

2004-01-20, 12:32 PM

EVERYONE should have their DNA on record and be required to give a DROP OF BLOOD at the door of Nation to avoid underage drinking and other disorderly conduct.... HELL, while we're at it, let's just slap a barcode on everyone and a tracking device linked to a satelite system... THAT WAY, if anyone does anything stupid or assenine, we just ZAP them with a lazer from space and erase them from existance. :yes:

velvetgoldmire

2004-01-20, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by GimmeABreakBeat
anyone ever see the wall of shame at the other side in towson? :afterbuzz:
Where and what is it? (Not the Other Side... I know what that is... but the Wall of Shame inside the sto')

SCHLiTZ

2004-01-20, 12:38 PM

again, mandatory barcode tatoos and chip inserts at birth.... solves everything.

LadyJ

2004-01-20, 12:40 PM

I think that most of us can agree that fining and locking up owners and bartenders because selfish kids are using fake IDs is wrong. Unfortunately, that's the law and it's not going to be changed anytime soon. Therefore, anyone who is under 21 and is using a fake ID to go out and drink, do not think that it's ok because you are "mature and responsible enough to handle it." The fact that you are putting the financial and social well-being of complete strangers in jeopardy proves how selfish, immature, and manipulative you really are. If you're reading this thread, you have now been educated as to the consequences of YOUR actions on OTHERS.

RITMGuy

2004-01-20, 12:45 PM

I'll admit it. I was using a fake ID since I was 16. I threw it away once I turned 21. However, I didn't conduct myself like that. I took care not to drink but maybe one, and I just wanted to get in for the music. I do think that the owner shouldn't be responsible, it should be the parents. I know that in my area there is a curfew for anyone under the age of 18. Even though it is regularly broken, it is still law and kids would be arrested if they were doing something stupid or pissed off a cop. The parents let their child out late, they should be responsible. If the owner took all possible precautions, how could he know. He can only do so much. I know my fake ID was perfect: a VA Driver's License w/my picture on it.

Julierose

2004-01-20, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by tigerjunglist
:nixo:

I'm thinking they should make some sort of scanner for IDs or something at the front door, to determine the authenticity of cards by reading the magnets or something.

At state stores in PA (all liquor stores in PA are run by the state so they are called state stores) they have a scanner that they use to check id's of anyone who looks under 30... Even if you are just going in with a friend and are not personally buying any alcohol. If they trust the technology, I don't see why club owners couldn't reasonably trust it as well... :shrug:

LadyJ

2004-01-20, 12:49 PM

Parents cannot allows be held accountable. I'm sure that every one of you can think of a time when you went out and did something stupid without your parents knowledge or consent. The only way that parents could possibly be "responsible" for their children's actions at all times is to be at their side at all times. Is this really realistic or desirable for anyone involved? People have to start taking personal responsibility for their actions.

Julierose

2004-01-20, 12:52 PM

<--- never had a fake id... never saw the point in them really... :shrug:

LadyJ

2004-01-20, 12:58 PM

I never had one either. Drinking just isn't that big of a deal. If I was under 21 and wanted a drink, I could have one at home.

Julierose

2004-01-20, 01:00 PM

:werd: or at a friends house... no need to go to the bars and clubs really...

bboyneko

2004-01-20, 01:03 PM

I don't understand the United States paranoia about underage drinking. In many countries around the world the drinking age is like 16 or no drinking age at all. What is it with puritan moralioty and the so-called evils of alcohol? I mean this is a country that relatively recently banned all alcohol consumption.

I come from colombia, no drinkin' age. Does this mean everyone is an alccoholic by age 10? disaster? chaos? widespread orgie and looting? nope. Kids grow up with it as just another drink and so don't go as crazy with it.

DeAtHmOnGeR bEaR

2004-01-20, 01:04 PM

I just still think it's crazy that an 18 year old soldier can die for his country... and not even get to drink yet.

But that's just me :shrug:

RITMGuy

2004-01-20, 01:06 PM

Yep. My mother came over here when she was 18 from Germany. She grew up with alcohol and was pissed she couldn't have wine with her dinner. But she never turned into an alcoholic. I just don't know.

Electric Head

2004-01-20, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by gotta-jibboo

that's the problem. by law, kids under 17 AREN'T responsible. their parents are. so i say we lock up the parents. maybe then they'll do a better job of keeping an eye on their kids.

-jb

Originally posted by tranKwilized

That has got to me the most moronic thing I've heard all year.

I agree with tranKwilized.....

Can't believe what I'm hearing.

Electric Head

2004-01-20, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by bboyneko
I don't understand the United States paranoia about underage drinking. In many countries around the world the drinking age is like 16 or no drinking age at all. What is it with puritan moralioty and the so-called evils of alcohol? I mean this is a country that relatively recently banned all alcohol consumption.

Ok, I'm not a fan of state and federal laws, but let's at least get the facts. The rise in the drinking age (from 18 to 21) is a federal requirement caused by.......ready?.........the interstate system.

States wanted the feds to fund road maintenance, expansion and such...which they agreed to do...if the state raised it's drinking age. So they did.

And the paranoia, my friend, is not unjustified....."Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for young people 15 to 20 years of age....alcohol-related fatalities for youth under 21 have declined by 56 percent between 1982 and 1996" (see http://www.yaerd.org/under21.htm)

So, you tell me....is this a bad idea? Or do you want a drink so bad that you don't think about the family in the car that the drunk driver hit.

*quietly steps off the soapbox and goes back to work*

DeAtHmOnGeR bEaR

2004-01-20, 01:23 PM

Statistics, statistics.... you can tweek 'em any way you want...

"motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for young people 15 to 20 years of age"
Okay. Fair comment. What they don't tell you is that it's the leading cause of DEATH, right ahead of cancer, and airplane crashes. Let's say that 3 15-20 year olds die due to cancer. Let's say that 10 die from alcohol and driving. Oh my... it's the LEADING CAUSE!

It's not that we want kids to drink, it's just silly that the law is the way it is... :shrug:

LadyJ

2004-01-20, 01:29 PM

I'm not arguing that the drinking age is right. I'm not arguing either way. That's something I don't want to get into.

All I'm saying is that this is the law. If you don't abide by it, you are putting people (not just yourself) at risk. If people don't like the law, they need to start lobbying for change.

RITMGuy

2004-01-20, 01:32 PM

Well I do believe that American parents do not do a great job of taking care of their kids. But this has only been recently. Parents just don't seem to care anymore, or are more wrapped up in their world rather than taking care of their children. I know I didn't like it then, but I think my mom now for being in my business and making sure she knew what I was doing. It helped me become a somewhat descent person. But since civil suing has become the new fad, and everyone can blame their own faults and mistakes on someone else, responsibility doesn't seem to be needed anymore. Making someone take the consequences of their own actions seems ludicrous now-a-days. It's sad, but true.

RITMGuy

2004-01-20, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Electric Head

Ok, I'm not a fan of state and federal laws, but let's at least get the facts. The rise in the drinking age (from 18 to 21) is a federal requirement caused by.......ready?.........the interstate system.

States wanted the feds to fund road maintenance, expansion and such...which they agreed to do...if the state raised it's drinking age. So they did.

And the paranoia, my friend, is not unjustified....."Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for young people 15 to 20 years of age....alcohol-related fatalities for youth under 21 have declined by 56 percent between 1982 and 1996" (see http://www.yaerd.org/under21.htm)

So, you tell me....is this a bad idea? Or do you want a drink so bad that you don't think about the family in the car that the drunk driver hit.

*quietly steps off the soapbox and goes back to work*

Your statistics seem very convincing, but after second thought, they are only common sense. The law that raised the drinking the drinking age from 18-21 was passed around the late 70's (about 78 or79 if I am not mistaken). After the 3-4 process of state ratification, it would only make sense since people under the age of 21 weren't allowed to legally drink anymore. The fact that most americans do happen to abide by laws, that would obviously bring down the amount of alcohol fatalities. I am not saying that any fatalities are good, but it just seems like common deduction. That particular statistic doesn't seem very convincing to me. I think that it's about equal when underage drinkers drive or when overage drinkers drive. The effects are the same, as well as the consequences should be.

Mandaba

2004-01-20, 01:45 PM

for goodness' sake people, we live right next door to the united states congress, if you have an issue with the drinking age, i am sure you can submit yer issues to them. fact is, the law is the law right now.

RITMGuy

2004-01-20, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by FavoriteMistake
for goodness' sake people, we live right next door to the united states congress, if you have an issue with the drinking age, i am sure you can submit yer issues to them. fact is, the law is the law right now.

I'm not an age 32-51, middle-class, white male. They won't listen to me.

Mandaba

2004-01-20, 01:53 PM

:goawaymarcus:

Mandaba

2004-01-20, 01:53 PM

:jk:

:plur:

LadyJ

2004-01-20, 01:53 PM

Well, that attitude isn't going to gain any confidence. The best way to show people that they should listen to you is to keep at it even when there seems to be no chance. I've gained a lot (including jobs) by doing exactly that.

Mandaba

2004-01-20, 01:54 PM

patience and persistence?

Electric Head

2004-01-20, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by LadyJ
I'm not arguing that the drinking age is right. I'm not arguing either way. That's something I don't want to get into.

All I'm saying is that this is the law. If you don't abide by it, you are putting people (not just yourself) at risk. If people don't like the law, they need to start lobbying for change.

I try to take this view...thanks for the reminder......

Electric Head

2004-01-20, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by RITMGuy

I'm not an age 32-51, middle-class, white male. They won't listen to me.

Just have to be over 18. You can't drink, but you can be heard.

RITMGuy

2004-01-20, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Electric Head

Just have to be over 18. You can't drink, but you can be heard.

I'm 21 now. But the average voter is considered to be 32-51, middle class white male. Just a generalization.

Yakko Red

2004-01-20, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by EurotrashEve
My old boss that I promoted for at the Depot in Baltimore is in huge trouble b/c a 17 year old used a fake ID to get in and drink...not only that she acted like a total lush and ended up doing a bit more then pressing charges..when it was her fault to begin with ..she should be the one in trouble don't you think.?

Anyway, now he is in jail and might get 10+ years depending on how the trial goes...Yet another reason why underagers shouldn't drink...you not only risk the clubs reputation but you can get the owner jailed 10+years by your stupidity and ignorance. Not to mention ruin the fun for others...(this guy is like family to me, so I'm upset)

Sorry, to sound like a hypocrite but it's 2004 times have changed and authority has grown stricter :redfu:

Please wait until your 21

:werd:

gotta-jibboo

2004-01-20, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Electric Head

I agree with tranKwilized.....

Can't believe what I'm hearing.

why is it moronic to hold parents accountable for their children. in the eyes of the law, parents ARE legally responsible, unless said child has been emancipated. i think its moronic to make bartendenders legally responsible for these a-holes who break the law (using a fake id is a felony) to break another law (underage drinking) if you need a drink so bad that you'll break the law and risk the liquor license of the establishment you're in, then you need a spanking and an aa meeting.

Wickity

2004-01-20, 04:56 PM

I think the drinking age should be abolished. It's just not right...

gotta-jibboo

2004-01-20, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Wickity
I think the drinking age should be abolished. It's just not right...

why do you think it isn't right?

lupitanahsee

2004-01-20, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by tigerjunglist
:nixo:

I'm thinking they should make some sort of scanner for IDs or something at the front door, to determine the authenticity of cards by reading the magnets or something. It might not stop someone from using their big brother/sister's ID, but I think it's worth the cut down at the very least.

And personally... I think someone with a fake ID needs to be stripped and beaten with broken broomsticks. Fucking children.
:ranton:

they use ID scanners all the time in the clubs in PA.

Julierose

2004-01-20, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by gotta-jibboo
if you need a drink so bad that you'll break the law and risk the liquor license of the establishment you're in, then you need a spanking and an aa meeting.

:afterbuzz: :spit: :haha:

stormryder

2004-01-20, 10:17 PM

Chicago and NYC last time I was there too...both cities I went to clubs that used scanners.

.....

I don't think the drinking age laws are right because they interfere with teaching people to drink properly. Think about it...in Europe, where there really isn't a drinking age, incidence of drunk driving and problem alcoholism is lower. Could it be because kids are brought up with alcohol and its not something new or different? Proper use is encouraged and taught by parents?

Here it's the forbidden fruit syndrome. Dangle something out of reach, even when everything else is available (cigarettes even) and you make it important...even magical. People go all sorts of stupid when they turn 21, nearly drinking themselves to death. The very nature of prohibition makes something more appealing.

EurotrashEve

2004-01-21, 01:06 AM

This girl knew damn well what she was doing 17 and drinking..walking into a bar/club. At 16 you know what your doing..you know your actions come with consequences. If she didn't want to screw the owner she should have said "NO"..as proof(drnk or not it's a two letter word even a belligerent drunk can scream NO loudly).. he tried to kiss me all drunk. I said NO and he fucked off, proof he wouldn't rape, let alone go further. He had no idea the girl was underage b/c he didn't check the ID's..she had a fake NJ ID...it even had the hologram(so the bouncer couldn't tell). He is in jail for 10 + years for the drinking violation of the minor but, still impending a sentence for rape /assault of a minor charges(seperately)..

The drinking law in Germany is as such:
Drink beer by 16
Hard liquor by 18
Get drivers license by 18-21 depending on your location in europe.

tranKwilized

2004-01-21, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by gotta-jibboo

why is it moronic to hold parents accountable for their children. in the eyes of the law, parents ARE legally responsible, unless said child has been emancipated. i think its moronic to make bartendenders legally responsible for these a-holes who break the law (using a fake id is a felony) to break another law (underage drinking) if you need a drink so bad that you'll break the law and risk the liquor license of the establishment you're in, then you need a spanking and an aa meeting.

Yeah, your right. Parents ARE supposed to look out for and disipline their children.

Anybody know what's wrong with that statement?

YOUR NOT ALLOWED TO DISIPLINE YOUR CHILDREN ANYMORE!

The same laws preventing you from punishing your children, are the ones preventing parents from enforcing said rules. Sorry, kids don't listen without a good ass whooping. That 'spanking' your talking about is called child abuse now days. Prety much all you can do is :nono: and pray to God, for your own sake, that your kid stays out of trouble.

How can we hold parents responsible when we won't even give them the right to properly punish a child? a :jeffrey: goes much further than a :nono: but people refuse to understand that.

EurotrashEve

2004-01-21, 01:48 AM

There is a reason our drinking law isn't 18 anymore since 1982 I believe..it was an incident that happened in Bowie involving 10 Teenagers and a pick up truck...it was one of the worst drunk driving incidents ever.*True story*I learned about it in driver improvement school for my accident.*not involving alcohol

Okay 9 teenagers were picked up by this guy who was 18(HS senior ) for a party later that night. Earlier ,those teenagers got a ride from him. he had been chugging beer cans all day long well into the point he picked up the teens. Distrubuting beer to ppl ages 15-17...2 rode up froint with him and 7 piled into the back.
THey never made it to the party b/c someone dared him to do over 80mph around a twisting bend. He lost control of the wheel the two passengers flew into the tree the rest of the kids were found decapitated.. Their fingers embedded in the tree they crashed into . Detectives had to carve the fingers of the 9 dead kids to identify their bodies since the bodyparts were all scattered and charred. The sick part is the kid who killed his 9 friends, the drunk ass driver didn't receive the death sentence he received a year for each life he took including +1 for his which should have been taken.

*what is the relevance really ..what am I trying to say here?
The justice system is really unfair and fucktards get off and the non-guilty party gets fucked...YOUR actions DO effect the enviroment(ie:clublife), the ppl(ie:promoters, owners,security).
It is one thing to use a fake ID to get into a 21+ event to just see a band or dance..but another to drink underage.
There are so many things that could happen..

1) like a security person losing their job b/c of carelessness,

2)you sitting in jail for a night then having to go to court.. if they discover you have a fake ID in posession.

3) Getting violated or raped unwillingly b/c a date rape drug was placed into your drink while u were dancing or it was bought for you and you passed out from the drug and this guy or girl vouched to security you were with them as they carry you out unconscious.

4)Or you may drink past your limit black out and awake to parents and a tube in your stomach or down your throat detoxing your system from alcohol poisoning (you will not end up at home instead you will go to the mental ward for "attempted" suicide or attend AA meetings =or go to rehab for your actions).

NEVER SAY"OH,IT WON'T HAPPEN TO ME..B/c if u believe in something like KARMA(technically you are fucking with it)AND EVENTUALLY YOU WILL FEEL THE CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR ACTIONS. SEE there is alot of fucked up things in this world that can happen as a result of stupid irresponsibility.

If your underage save drinking for the pre-party not our club..b/c I don't want to see Cubik or any other awesome venue in this area get shut down for careless reasons or give the govt. another reason to crack down on OUR clublife.

KTHNX,
Eve

Synthetikid

2004-01-21, 01:59 AM

this drinking thing is complex- i'm just saying DON"T FUCK UP MY FAVOURITE CLUB NIGHT

2cute4u

2004-01-21, 04:00 PM

So lets say someone gets caught underage drinking... with a fake ID at Cubik...

A. By an undercover cop... the party would be in danger of getting shut down... and Nation would be in danger of losing it's liquor lisence... right? so... that brings me to

B. By Nation Security... they get kicked out and allowed to return the next week. Probably with another fake ID... Putting the club and the party in danger again.

There should be a stricter policy on this. I don't want to have all the clubs end up being 21 and up because of people that can't abide by the laws...

Julierose

2004-01-21, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by tranKwilized

Yeah, your right. Parents ARE supposed to look out for and disipline their children.

Anybody know what's wrong with that statement?

YOUR NOT ALLOWED TO DISIPLINE YOUR CHILDREN ANYMORE!

in public you are not allowed to physically disipline your children. What you do in your own home is your own business as long as you do not draw blood or cause bruising. There are other forms of discipline as well, groundings, extra chores, no tv/video games, no computer, the list goes on and on. I think the problem is that when you see 'disipline' you automatically think of some kid getting the crap kicked out of him by his dad. That's not always the case.

bboyneko

2004-01-21, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Funshine
Statistics, statistics.... you can tweek 'em any way you want...

"motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for young people 15 to 20 years of age"
Okay. Fair comment. What they don't tell you is that it's the leading cause of DEATH, right ahead of cancer, and airplane crashes. Let's say that 3 15-20 year olds die due to cancer. Let's say that 10 die from alcohol and driving. Oh my... it's the LEADING CAUSE!

It's not that we want kids to drink, it's just silly that the law is the way it is... :shrug:

its not alcohol that was the leading cause of death, but car accidents. Roughly 50% of those accidents are a result of alcohol.

Now, the older the age group, the higher the percentage of accidents being fatal due to alcohol. Why?

Cus when people when older get into fatal crashes, they are experienced drivers, so the chances of them dying from inexperience is much lower. Therefore, when they DO crash hard enough to die its usually cus of alcohol.

Thats why 50% of the fatal crashes in teens is alcohol..the rest are them not knowing how to drive. So really, the killer is allowing inexperienced drivers on the road..not necessarily alcohol, and as the statistics show alcohol will cause accidents no matter your age.

Point: dont drink and drive

point: the accident statistics is not good reason to have such a high drinking age. Its good reason to have higher driving age or much stricter requirements for obtaining one.

bboyneko

2004-01-21, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by gotta-jibboo

why is it moronic to hold parents accountable for their children. in the eyes of the law, parents ARE legally responsible, unless said child has been emancipated.

Because children are individual people who make their own choices, and parents cant have them under lock and key at all times.

Tigger

2004-01-21, 04:27 PM

This law needs to be changed.

Shadowself00

2004-01-21, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by stormryder
Chicago and NYC last time I was there too...both cities I went to clubs that used scanners.

.....

I don't think the drinking age laws are right because they interfere with teaching people to drink properly. Think about it...in Europe, where there really isn't a drinking age, incidence of drunk driving and problem alcoholism is lower. Could it be because kids are brought up with alcohol and its not something new or different? Proper use is encouraged and taught by parents?

Here it's the forbidden fruit syndrome. Dangle something out of reach, even when everything else is available (cigarettes even) and you make it important...even magical. People go all sorts of stupid when they turn 21, nearly drinking themselves to death. The very nature of prohibition makes something more appealing.

The Europe example dosent work, because most teenagers over there dont have cars. In the US almost all teenagers get there licenses at 16 or 18( dont know what the age is anymore). So the instances of drunk teenage driving are much much higher.

DjAmP

2004-01-21, 05:08 PM

This is bullshit, if i ever got cought drinking underage.. (i never did) ((Proud 21 Now)) i would never ever let anyone else get in trouble besides me...

justbu82

2004-01-21, 08:38 PM

just a thought here. imagine that you are 18, and going to your prom. at the door is the princible, carding everybody. the seniors get a wrist band where everybody else gets that nasty "X". Im not saying the school system would condone drinking at a school function. but think back, how many older friends did you have when you were in school. I think 21 is a perfect age. by then you are more of an adult, and you want to socialize with other adults. when i was 18 i really didn't feel like i was responsible for my actions, i felt independent of course. at 21 you realize you can die, be in jail, or kill someone else. Coming to truth on those things makes you a more mature person. ok papa smurf has said his peace.:D

Mandaba

2004-01-21, 08:42 PM

at 18 i feel i can die, be in jail, kill someone else. i think the whole thing is based upon what people consider a "mature" age. and we all know maturity ranges with different people and personality types.

justbu82

2004-01-21, 08:48 PM

yeah you realize that stuff, but its not really high on your thinking list. i am only 22 now, and i think about back in the day, when i was a young whipper snapper. when i was sneaking liquior, drinking and driving. i knew that i could kill someone, but fun was more on my to do list. it was the same way with the other stuff that wasn't alcohol. but now i am worried about going to school, starting a family supporting them......wait i am rambling. just wait til your 21, i did.

Synthetikid

2004-01-21, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by 2cute4u
So lets say someone gets caught underage drinking... with a fake ID at Cubik...

A. By an undercover cop... the party would be in danger of getting shut down... and Nation would be in danger of losing it's liquor lisence... right? so... that brings me to

B. By Nation Security... they get kicked out and allowed to return the next week. Probably with another fake ID... Putting the club and the party in danger again.

There should be a stricter policy on this. I don't want to have all the clubs end up being 21 and up because of people that can't abide by the laws...

they cant be anymore strict than taking away the fake IDs- if they started the wall of shame again they would be subject to some upper class punk's parents getting letigious.

Mandaba

2004-01-21, 08:53 PM

uuuhhh, you don't know me personally, you don't know what is on my "list". unless you are generalizing my age group, but that really does no good. i dont think some people realize that maturity isnt always reflected due to age.

The Drifter

2004-01-21, 08:54 PM

:werd:

Synthetikid

2004-01-21, 08:59 PM

but for the most part it's a good gague- would you rather they sat each and every person down and questioned them to establish a psychological profile to determine if you can drink?
you would never get in the club.

justbu82

2004-01-21, 09:00 PM

true, than again i felt the same way at 18. some people handle it diffrently, some :nixo: , and others :chug just fine. the law is the law, it has debateable pros and cons. sometimes ya just gotta accept it(or find a way around it). but if there is a chance that it is gona hurt somebody else as well, you shouldnt do it. just look at the club owner, 10 yeas is a long time. suckin!

Mandaba

2004-01-21, 09:02 PM

oh, i care about the age for drinking, im jus not so bothered by it to vocalize my opinion on it to congress at the moment. one thing i do think is that if they did lower the age on drinking, perhaps the use of illegal substances might go down? or possibly not, i tend to think they are used by the younger crowd in public places due to the fact they cannot indulge in alcohol. then again, that could not be the reason at all. :shrug: jus my thoughts

bboyneko

2004-01-21, 09:13 PM

the drinking age needs to be lowered to 18, or the "adult" marker moved up to 21. The disparity right now is ridiculous.

gotta-jibboo

2004-01-21, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by stormryder
Chicago and NYC last time I was there too...both cities I went to clubs that used scanners.

.....

I don't think the drinking age laws are right because they interfere with teaching people to drink properly. Think about it...in Europe, where there really isn't a drinking age, incidence of drunk driving and problem alcoholism is lower. Could it be because kids are brought up with alcohol and its not something new or different? Proper use is encouraged and taught by parents?

Here it's the forbidden fruit syndrome. Dangle something out of reach, even when everything else is available (cigarettes even) and you make it important...even magical. People go all sorts of stupid when they turn 21, nearly drinking themselves to death. The very nature of prohibition makes something more appealing.

the reason why the incidence of drunk driving is lower in europe is because there are no second offenses. the first time you get caught drunk driving they take your license and you never get it back. secondly, just because you can't buy alcohol until you're 21 doesn't mean that parents can't serve their children alcohol in the home. at whatever age they see fit...16, 18, whatever. the truth is that we live in a world where young adults are irresponsible. it is a parent's job to teach this responsibility. and parents aren't doing it.

gotta-jibboo

2004-01-21, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by bboyneko
the drinking age needs to be lowered to 18, or the "adult" marker moved up to 21. The disparity right now is ridiculous.

apples and oranges

gotta-jibboo

2004-01-21, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by RITMGuy

Your statistics seem very convincing, but after second thought, they are only common sense. The law that raised the drinking the drinking age from 18-21 was passed around the late 70's (about 78 or79 if I am not mistaken). After the 3-4 process of state ratification, it would only make sense since people under the age of 21 weren't allowed to legally drink anymore. The fact that most americans do happen to abide by laws, that would obviously bring down the amount of alcohol fatalities. I am not saying that any fatalities are good, but it just seems like common deduction. That particular statistic doesn't seem very convincing to me. I think that it's about equal when underage drinkers drive or when overage drinkers drive. The effects are the same, as well as the consequences should be.

the federal government FORCED states to raise the drinking age to 21. this was the same time that the "nickel" tax on gasoline was enacted. the money collected from this excise tax on gasoline was pooled by the federal government and dispursed as the feds saw fit. if your state had a drinking age lower than 21, then said state would not get any of the money collected through the tax. the feds did the same thing when they wanted to make seat belts manditory

stormryder

2004-01-21, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by gotta-jibboo

the reason why the incidence of drunk driving is lower in europe is because there are no second offenses. the first time you get caught drunk driving they take your license and you never get it back. secondly, just because you can't buy alcohol until you're 21 doesn't mean that parents can't serve their children alcohol in the home. at whatever age they see fit...16, 18, whatever. the truth is that we live in a world where young adults are irresponsible. it is a parent's job to teach this responsibility. and parents aren't doing it.

But maybe it's because parent's use the "law" as a crutch to defer forever the responsibility of teaching the proper use of alcohol. They don't take responsibility and so it's peers, whether at 16 or 21 that influence how a person drinks the most.

I'm not one to dismiss so easily the example of continental Europe with regard to drinking. The DUI laws are stricter there, but that alone really can't account for the reduced incidence of DUI, nor the reduced incidence of problem alcoholism.

misanthrope

2004-01-22, 10:03 PM

what the higher drinking age does is prolong the age of being a "child" even longer. teenagers in the u.s act like children because they are treated like children.

i'm pissed because i'm 19 and i cant go out and listen to any good djs because i'm not 21. if i was 21 i wouldn't want to hang out with kids either, but i think if we treated 16,17, 18 year olds like the adults they are sopposed to be they would get a little more mature and people would be willing to trust them a little more.

Layla

2004-01-22, 11:40 PM

a couple of things....

clubowners and promoters should not be held responsible for the behaviour and actions of their patrons unless it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that they are coercing their patrons.

parents should be held responsible for their children's actions. maybe then parents would take an active and interested role in their children's lives.

the current climate regarding alcohol and illicit drugs encourages abuse of those substances. i don't really know how to change that. when i was growing up my parents honestly discussed their experiences with alcohol and illicit drugs. i was allowed wine with dinner and when i was a little older whiskey or cognac afterwards. it was assumed that i would try drugs, so rules were laid out. rules which were reasonable and i still to this day follow. (25 now)

the laws would not be as ridiculous as they are now if our cultures' (yes, i mean us specifically) use of these drugs were tempered with some common sense and self control.

i never had a fake id. i didn't need one i guess. i still got into whatever clubs i wanted to. if i wanted to drink, i drank. i feel bad about drinking underage now that i know the penalties incurred upon the establishment. i didn't know them back then.

to the moderators: i understand if you feel the need to censor this. but in this case i really odn't know any other way to phrase this and get my point across.