tips, tricks, techniques, & experience

[method]

i've been producing for about six years now simply for my own amusement, and i've developed a system (though it's been developed before) that works very well for me.

i'm sure we've all heard bt's "fibonacci sequence", and for those of you who don't know, fibonacci sequences are the patterns that produce harmony, but why is this so great? some of this might sound really weird & eggheady, but it's not that bad...i promise!

the intrinsic characteristics of harmonics allow for different waves to propagate concurrently without any turbulence, which is what gives them their pleasing quality; when our ears convert musical sound waves into electrical pulses, they hit our auditory cortex in such a manner that our consciousness can anticipate, or at least appreciate, what comes next because they are being received in a manner that follows a rational pattern based on what has come before; this is the essence of progression.

we all know that harmonic frequencies produce chords, but most people, i imagine, never think of music as a vastly complex wave function, and so never think to apply the principles of harmony to EVERY facet of music.

for those of you who are sceptical; here's a simplistic mini-proof:

let's call the kickdrum of a 4/4 beat f1; and the snaredrum f2...
let's say that the kickdrum occurs every quarter measure, and the snaredrum occurs every 1/2 measure(just like in the standard 4/4 beat)...
by comparing the frequency of the events we can see that f1 occurs twice as often as f2, a harmonic ratio that corresponds to an octave!

even the nastiest jungle beats can be broken down like this, breakbeats are just representations of superpositions of two or more harmonic waves or wavelets(a wave that doesn't repeat infinitely) in the same pattern.

so for those of you who have the patience (NB tails), when you write a pattern you like and can't find something to go along with it; you can break down the pattern into a system of periodic (when events occur at identical/regular intervals) waves. then multiply by a harmonic, or add or subtract harmonic waves to yield a new pattern that will sound good!

another thing to bear in mind is that you have to pick a "base" to work in...a fundamental number from which you'll derive all your harmonics. so long as your base is the same, any harmonic pattern will work throughout the song. but be careful, you may create dissonance between patterns if you don't keep track of the frequencies of the waves you've already applied & select a non-harmonic one...

hopefully you're convinced that the intrinsic characteristics of harmonics produce pleasing effects no matter what dimension you are working in (if not, try taking measurements of different objects in your favorite piece of artwork), so you can take this li'l piece of knowledge and apply it to LFOs, patterns, sound qualities...everything! c'mon people let's usher in a brave new world of electronica, leaving no room for mindless incipid poptrash!

i could go on for pages & pages, but i really don't want to seem like some knowitall asshole; this is the most useful and powerful thing i've learned from writing & studying music. if anyone wants more quasi-mathmatical musical mumbo-jumbo, i'd be happy to pattle on!

for anyone whom i've really interested, & doesn't mind a lot of reading, checkout "The Schillinger System of Musical Composition"; it'll teach you ALL about it.

[n-root]

well fucking put! :cheers:

[n-root]

I will add that PERSONALLY I had an issue once with being overly analytical at times with music. It completely thrashed my love of music for a while (music theory BS and having to slave over arrangements), I just burnt out. But for those who are not faint of heart a disection of music is great. But its like that movie Pi once you figure it all out you may find yourself in a world full of numbers that all add up with nothing left unexplained that you once took for granted as simple beauty.

[retail]

Originally posted by n-root
I will add that PERSONALLY I had an issue once with being overly analytical at times with music. It completely thrashed my love of music for a while (music theory BS and having to slave over arrangements), I just burnt out. But for those who are not faint of heart a disection of music is great. But its like that movie Pi once you figure it all out you may find yourself in a world full of numbers that all add up with nothing left unexplained that you once took for granted as simple beauty.

read nathaniel hawthorne's "artist of the beautiful" --- i think it's relevant to your last sentence

[Tails]

I appreciate that you took the time to write that out, method, and I'm thinking of checking out the book you mentioned... of course, the final word is whether or not it sounds good, and experimentation is key, but these two pieces of production advice are so toited that I'm pretty sure by now I've gotten them out of a fortune cookie at least once.

(Speaking of which, do you have any work online that we could check out? We are music-lovers, after all.)

I'm a big proponent of understanding the relationships between things so this sounds useful as another piece of the puzzle.

And yeah, patience is a virtue.

[method]

yea i've got a page on mp3.com, but it's only got some tracks on it that are almost 3 yrs old, when all i had to use was cakewalk, rebirth, & a d-70. i've been plenty busy since then, but i've been totally remiss in updating my page there. i just uploaded my two latest tracks, but they'll intentionally take forever to post it since i'm not paying them anything.

if anyone's really interested, i'd be happy to email you mp3s. i'd really appreciate some feedback! if you want some, send me an email at

modusinrebusomnis@hotmail.com

btw; the main thrust of my post was that if you work the method (no pun intended) right, then what comes out _should_ sound good...not necessarily that specific ratios are predominantly important over experienced aesthetics.

[method]

alternately, if you have ridiculous size constraints on your POP account, or a slow mail server, i have my pc set up as a hotline server, i could change the login options to anonymous download OK...

[method]

anyway, i meant this thread to be a forum for everyone to impart their own li'l bits of wisdom...

who else has good stuff to share? badass patterns/fx?

here's another one:

to get the stretchy/elastic/metallic sounds (used to be used in dnb a lot...) set your delay down to just a few milliseconds, and turn down the feedback a little!

[n-root]

turn _down_ the feedback?

[method]

i suppose it would depend on the default level...mine's down
:shrug:

[DAVEILL1]

I will add that PERSONALLY I had an issue once with being overly analytical at times with music. It completely thrashed my love of music for a while (music theory BS and having to slave over arrangements), I just burnt out. But for those who are not faint of heart a disection of music is great. But its like that movie Pi once you figure it all out you may find yourself in a world full of numbers that all add up with nothing left unexplained that you once took for granted as simple beauty.

Word

[DAVEILL1]

"The Schillinger System of Musical Composition"; it'll teach you ALL about it.

How much is this book and is it easy to find ?

[DAVEILL1]

How much is this book and is it easy to find ?

Its out of print and about $86 used :loot: :loot: :loot:

[method]

wow - $86 is down from $150 when i tried to find it a couple years ago

[SCHLiTZ]

that description takes me back to my time in college and our vibrations lab... harmonic frequencies and in-phase/out-phase... fun stuff.

[Steve Synth]

WOW...that was a lot to take in this early in the morning...but I must say I will be getting through my day feeling truly enlightened. Seems that $86 would be a a good investment.http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Reconstructed]

Here is a little trick I use to get my tunes grooving:

As you know overly quantized rhythms lack that human quality that can differentiate a good beat from an excellent one. It is always in your best interest to use groove templates on your rhythms.

With Cubase VST32 or SX2, the trick I use to get the best groove possible is that I will record myself into a microphone actually "beatboxing" the way I want the rhythm to sound. That way I get all the subtleties and the groove going exactly how I want it. All you have to do next is import the wave file of your beatboxing into Cubase and get the M-points (VST32) or hitpoints. Once you've lined up your m/hitpoints onto your beat correctly Cubase has a function that allows you to convert M-points(hitpoints) to groove.

Viola! A groove template that has a very human groove to it, exactly how you want it!

-Craig

[the sex molesters]

mary had a little lamb, little lamb, little lamb = assonance

mary had a little lamb, little -- = dissonance

dissonance can be as much of a musical device as assonance. you just have to know how to use it. see: trent reznor.

[the sex molesters]

i don't like to follow a sequence, i prefer to break a sequence... to leave the listener wondering why i went where i went when i did.

[kirk]

techniques such as those mentioned originally in this thread, when practiced; make shitty musicians better and good musicians great.


its a whole new level of committment to practice.


i lack the intellectual capacity for such an approach so i just hammer away and tweak the knobs until i get what i'm searching for.

much the same as to how i approach life & it keeps getting better.

[method]

Here is a little trick I use to get my tunes grooving:

With Cubase VST32 or SX2, the trick I use to get the best groove possible is that I will record myself into a microphone actually "beatboxing" the way I want the rhythm to sound. That way I get all the subtleties and the groove going exactly how I want it. All you have to do next is import the wave file of your beatboxing into Cubase and get the M-points (VST32) or hitpoints. Once you've lined up your m/hitpoints onto your beat correctly Cubase has a function that allows you to convert M-points(hitpoints) to groove.


-Craig

That's kickass! I haven't used cubase for that. Those nuances are pesky & time-consuming to implement by hand. Definitely something I struggle with.

[method]

i don't like to follow a sequence, i prefer to break a sequence... to leave the listener wondering why i went where i went when i did.

But you can't pick a random series of places to "break the sequence" - that just sounds annoying. Even the craziest abstract mofos have some schema to which they adhere. If they didn't, I can't understand what would separate u-ziq and aphex twin from a monkey banging on keys...

Don't the places you select to deviate from the originally anticipated sequence conform to some kind of logical pattern?

[Scott Tropik]

good one method.. sure makes sense.. its more thinking that i wanted to do at hmm 8am but thats ok.. i just put the ole brain and neutral and revv'ed 'er up.. never went into gear :)

innovative way of thinking about music and making music are always really cool.. respekt, thanks for sharing :)

[Matt Sanborn]

Here is a tip that is pretty obvious for most:

Battery.

learn it, love it, be it.

Your drums will thank you.

[kirk]

Here is a tip that is pretty obvious for most:

Battery.

learn it, love it, be it.

Your drums will thank you.


the jive turkey has a point.


battery 2 and kontakt 2 make life easier.

[ramz]

except for jazz chords (C7sus4, etc.)... :wink: oh, and traditional augmented, diminished, and suspended chords widely used in classical music to mentally push to follow-on phrases...i've been producing for about six years now simply for my own amusement, and i've developed a system (though it's been developed before) that works very well for me.

i'm sure we've all heard bt's "fibonacci sequence", and for those of you who don't know, fibonacci sequences are the patterns that produce harmony, but why is this so great? some of this might sound really weird & eggheady, but it's not that bad...i promise!

the intrinsic characteristics of harmonics allow for different waves to propagate concurrently without any turbulence, which is what gives them their pleasing quality; when our ears convert musical sound waves into electrical pulses, they hit our auditory cortex in such a manner that our consciousness can anticipate, or at least appreciate, what comes next because they are being received in a manner that follows a rational pattern based on what has come before; this is the essence of progression.

we all know that harmonic frequencies produce chords, but most people, i imagine, never think of music as a vastly complex wave function, and so never think to apply the principles of harmony to EVERY facet of music.

for those of you who are sceptical; here's a simplistic mini-proof:

let's call the kickdrum of a 4/4 beat f1; and the snaredrum f2...
let's say that the kickdrum occurs every quarter measure, and the snaredrum occurs every 1/2 measure(just like in the standard 4/4 beat)...
by comparing the frequency of the events we can see that f1 occurs twice as often as f2, a harmonic ratio that corresponds to an octave!

even the nastiest jungle beats can be broken down like this, breakbeats are just representations of superpositions of two or more harmonic waves or wavelets(a wave that doesn't repeat infinitely) in the same pattern.

so for those of you who have the patience (NB tails), when you write a pattern you like and can't find something to go along with it; you can break down the pattern into a system of periodic (when events occur at identical/regular intervals) waves. then multiply by a harmonic, or add or subtract harmonic waves to yield a new pattern that will sound good!

another thing to bear in mind is that you have to pick a "base" to work in...a fundamental number from which you'll derive all your harmonics. so long as your base is the same, any harmonic pattern will work throughout the song. but be careful, you may create dissonance between patterns if you don't keep track of the frequencies of the waves you've already applied & select a non-harmonic one...

hopefully you're convinced that the intrinsic characteristics of harmonics produce pleasing effects no matter what dimension you are working in (if not, try taking measurements of different objects in your favorite piece of artwork), so you can take this li'l piece of knowledge and apply it to LFOs, patterns, sound qualities...everything! c'mon people let's usher in a brave new world of electronica, leaving no room for mindless incipid poptrash!

i could go on for pages & pages, but i really don't want to seem like some knowitall asshole; this is the most useful and powerful thing i've learned from writing & studying music. if anyone wants more quasi-mathmatical musical mumbo-jumbo, i'd be happy to pattle on!

for anyone whom i've really interested, & doesn't mind a lot of reading, checkout "The Schillinger System of Musical Composition"; it'll teach you ALL about it.

[Matt Sanborn]

another one:

Cubase SX, Logic, or Protools if you want to keep it gangsta.

<---Reason hater.

its like tryin to dj on Numark belt drives vs. 1200's IMO.

I know some people have a major boner for it, but thats another topic all together.

[john c]

they are just tools Matt. All you need is talent

[Matt Sanborn]

they are just tools Matt. All you need is talent


Oh for real?

[Matt Sanborn]

My point Captain Obvious was that I have heard soooo many people load up pre-made drum loops and acid samples and call it a track. Not saying everyone does that.....

that is not what I call producing.

Make it in frickin acid 2.0 for all I care. Its the end result that matters- just sayin I like Cubse SX and such more.

About 8 years ago all I had was one table for samplin and an MPC doin hip hop beats.

do what works

[john c]

relax. my point is, you can make pro shit in Reason. If anything, VST's allow kids to have amazing synths instantly from sick ass presets they come with these days. It goes both ways. Its very hard to cheat in Reason since most of the patches it comes with are CRAP.
And I lke Cubase more than Reason too but you really learn how to write and force yourself to truly
understand sound sculpting when using Reason. I just dont get the Reason hating.

[Matt Sanborn]

relax. my point is, you can make pro shit in Reason. If anything, VST's allow kids to have amazing synths instantly from sick ass presets they come with these days. It goes both ways. Its very hard to cheat in Reason since most of the patches it comes with are CRAP.
And I lke Cubase more than Reason too but you really learn how to write and force yourself to truly
understand sound sculpting when using Reason. I just dont get the Reason hating.


Oh Im relaxed :wink:- and I dont *really* hate it lol. I think it is a great tool. But I think there are better ones to invest your time learning on.

:hifive:

[john c]

No need to pick you can use diff software for diff purposes. they all have their pros and cons imo.

[Matt Sanborn]

Very much so.

I use Wavelab for messin with samples, Cubase SX and VST's for sequencing and all the other good stuff, but then I use Acid as a sketchpad to bounce down different parts of the track that are completed from Cubase.

different strokes for different folks. And Im no producer- I just do it when I want a remix or something I cant find thats released- i just make somethin myself to play out. Im a dj- i just play with production for fun or to make things I can use in my sets.

[method]

word john - i've got some fucking wicked custom subtractor patches. the only + feedback i've ever gotten on my shit is "nice synths"...and all i've got is reason.

tweak yer various knobs to harmonic settings; it works.

[deejayclutch]

WHY are you bringing up the math after I already graduated!?!?! Arg, giving me a headache.


It is pretty cool thought how music is nothing but MATH! Rock it!

[method]

sorry... :(

mathematics is for the überl337 producers anyway