why do people feel the need to say that their set is vinyl?

[daniella downs]

no offense to konversion (seriously), although i saw the title of his thread and it was one of the catalysts for this one.

but ever since the digital revolution really encapsulated dj'ing, some people (again, no offense meant their way) feel the need to say that their set/mix/whatever is vinyl.

now, from a live set standpoint, i don't see the point really, but can somewhat understand because it's more visual to the jaded old'uns in the audience who want to see the dj flip the record over to see what side they're going to play. for something like an oldskool mix, i can somewhat see it, even though half the stuff you can get digitally now anyways.

but for a dj mix, what difference does it make? it just means you arent playing the most current stuff.

also - when people say they play vinyl, does that include serato/final scratch/etc? i would think not (even though it is technically vinyl)

interested in opinions here.

and konversion - im not really up to speed on current liquid, although i do quite like it when i hear it. i'll definitely be d/l'ing your mix later today =)

[Perpetuum]

So DJs have a reason to let pops, crackle and distortion in the mix? :D

[Rican]

Cause Konversion's a douche... I can't speak for anyone else doing it...

[5l1mm]

why do people feel the need to say that their set is vinyl?
to appeal to the jaded party adults that miss the old days.
and add a feeling of authenticity to the event?


just a guess.
im not a dj, i havnt even stayed in a holiday inn express in months

[shade]

no idea, but let it be known that i am making this post from a TI-82 calculator.

[daniella downs]

to appeal to the jaded party adults that miss the old days.
and add a feeling of authenticity to the event?


just a guess.
im not a dj, i havnt even stayed in a holiday inn express in months

LOL @ holiday inn express.

but isnt it the music that makes the party?

when did it become the format in which the dj played that made the party?

[Perpetuum]

when did it become the format in which the dj played that made the party?

When digital formats became a popular high-quality, low-cost, infinitely replicable and more portable alternative to vinyl.

[Broken Home]

Ian,
Here are a few reasons why saying "mixed using vinyl" is good:

1. Bookings. If you're posting a mix to get bookings, it's important to say what you use. Say 2rip wanted to book Cliff after hearing his mix. Snatch doesn't have turntables, so knowing that Cliff's set was vinyl is important so he can plan accordingly. Same with that dude Endo that used two laptops and two MIDI controllers in his set -- that's important to know, as a promoter.

2. Saying that a mix was vinyl-only can explain some of the technical shortcomings of a mix such as pops and crackles, like Aaron said.

3. Saying a mix was vinyl-only can also be used to clarify the level of technical prowess. Throwing a scratch effect the way James Ziebillia does with the EFX, or in Ableton, is a different skill than scratching with vinyl. Some people consider the latter more impressive.

4. Similar to #2, vinyl can explain why the tunes are older than what that DJ usually plays.

I personally think everyone should always say how they made the mix including what hardware/software they used to record. It's free to post that shit and sharing knowledge is great.

[Broken Home]

Oh also, I don't know about you CD DJs... But for me, I sound MUCH BETTER on Serato than I do on vinyl, just because I'm so used to it. So if I do a vinyl set, it'll be much worse, and if I recorded that I'd throw that in as a disclaimer "this doesn't sound like my usual set because I used vinyl instead of digital" <--- that disclaimer is important to my eight, count 'em, eight iTunes subscribers. Hollllllllller

[daniella downs]

1. Bookings. If you're posting a mix to get bookings, it's important to say what you use. Say 2rip wanted to book Cliff after hearing his mix. Snatch doesn't have turntables, so knowing that Cliff's set was vinyl is important so he can plan accordingly. Same with that dude Endo that used two laptops and two MIDI controllers in his set -- that's important to know, as a promoter.

those are things you ask someone when booking them.



2. Saying that a mix was vinyl-only can explain some of the technical shortcomings of a mix such as pops and crackles, like Aaron said.

not necesarily.



3. Saying a mix was vinyl-only can also be used to clarify the level of technical prowess. Throwing a scratch effect the way James Ziebillia does with the EFX, or in Ableton, is a different skill than scratching with vinyl. Some people consider the latter more impressive.

i call shenanigans. this is where bulla comes in here and tells us how to play a record upside down with an ashtray.



4. Similar to #2, vinyl can explain why the tunes are older than what that DJ usually plays.

wouldnt you just say oldskool mix then?



I personally think everyone should always say how they made the mix including what hardware/software they used to record. It's free to post that shit and sharing knowledge is great.


most times when people make a mix on a computer, they dont want to say so. look at endo's mix. he said live mix about 15 times over the course of that thread, and alan hit the nail on the head when he said it was a studio mix, which it is.

[daniella downs]

also, i will note from that endo thread, that i would gladly make a mix on a computer with a mixer hooked up to it. i dont fault someone for that in any way.

[Perpetuum]

Oh also, I don't know about you CD DJs... But for me, I sound MUCH BETTER on Serato than I do on vinyl, just because I'm so used to it. So if I do a vinyl set, it'll be much worse, and if I recorded that I'd throw that in as a disclaimer "this doesn't sound like my usual set because I used vinyl instead of digital" <--- that disclaimer is important to my eight, count 'em, eight iTunes subscribers. Hollllllllller

I'll play devil's advocate, because while I'm certain you ARE better on Serato over vinyl, it's still worth mentioning. I've had numerous gigs where things have gone wrong (monitoring systems, equipment issues, clogged ears, etc.). It's been my experience that no one cares WHY a set went wrong...they just remember that a set went wrong.

[daniella downs]

to play devil's advocate to yours playing it to dan - i have a much easier time playing on cdj than vinyl.

i can play on vinyl (as that's obviously what i learned on), but im so much more used to going off times than looking at the record nowadays.

[D ain't famous]

I never really heard of anyone making it clear that "Vinyl was used to make this mix".

Personally I love spinning vinyl but I will be purchasing SL soon. I don't really care for people that need a program to help them mix. I mean no CDs or no Timecode Vinyl, just a laptop plugged into a mixer and a mouse. Thats just me though...

[Perpetuum]

to play devil's advocate to yours playing it to dan - i have a much easier time playing on cdj than vinyl.

i can play on vinyl (as that's obviously what i learned on), but im so much more used to going off times than looking at the record nowadays.

I echo your sentiments exactly and wouldn't go back to vinyl at all. That being said, that's more or less my choice and if something goes awry and I'm FORCED to play vinyl, then whatever consequences arise as a result of me not being as proficient on that format are my own and I have to own up to 'em.

[daniella downs]

I never really heard of anyone making it clear that "Vinyl was used to make this mix".

Personally I love spinning vinyl but I will be purchasing SL soon. I don't really care for people that need a program to help them mix. I mean no CDs or no Timecode Vinyl, just a laptop plugged into a mixer and a mouse. Thats just me though...

go to the main forum page and scroll up.

there was that buzz party not too long ago with scott and lee burridge that was a 4 hour vinyl mix.

[Master Miguel Lush]

I play cassettes bitches

[Broken Home]

those are things you ask someone when booking them.

Of course it is. I'm just giving an example of why someone would say "vinyl".



not necesarily.
I agree--not necessarily.





i call shenanigans. this is where bulla comes in here and tells us how to play a record upside down with an ashtray.

You call shenanigans on what part?



wouldnt you just say oldskool mix then?
*I* probably would, yeah. Some people might not.


most times when people make a mix on a computer, they dont want to say so. look at endo's mix. he said live mix about 15 times over the course of that thread, and alan hit the nail on the head when he said it was a studio mix, which it is.

I know they don't want to, but I'd like them to. I can dream. :)

[MINDPHUQ]

because you can't do all the things that make it easy with digital mixing, like set cuepoints, loops, instant doubles, etc... with vinyl.

It is harder to make a perfect live mix with vinyl than it is digital. Face it , this is truth.

and again, for the record, EITHER FORMAT IS FINE, use what you want to.

[Master Miguel Lush]

Being serious... i just think is like if I aint something, i say i used acrylics or oil paintings.... If i make a render, i'll say i used max, or maya, or MR, or Vray....

It is just pure information.

[daniella downs]

because you can't do all the things that make it easy with digital mixing, like set cuepoints, loops, instant doubles, etc... with vinyl.

It is harder to make a perfect live mix with vinyl than it is digital. Face it , this is truth.

and again, for the record, EITHER FORMAT IS FINE, use what you want to.

no, i agree with you completely.

but if you're just straight dj mixing, no tricks, no nothing, what difference does it make?

tell us how to play the record upside down.

[Broken Home]

I'll play devil's advocate, because while I'm certain you ARE better on Serato over vinyl, it's still worth mentioning. I've had numerous gigs where things have gone wrong (monitoring systems, equipment issues, clogged ears, etc.). It's been my experience that no one cares WHY a set went wrong...they just remember that a set went wrong.


to play devil's advocate to yours playing it to dan - i have a much easier time playing on cdj than vinyl.

i can play on vinyl (as that's obviously what i learned on), but im so much more used to going off times than looking at the record nowadays.


I echo your sentiments exactly and wouldn't go back to vinyl at all. That being said, that's more or less my choice and if something goes awry and I'm FORCED to play vinyl, then whatever consequences arise as a result of me not being as proficient on that format are my own and I have to own up to 'em.


You're right Aaron, but all else being equal, I do better with Serato. So if I play a set that's a little more off than usual, and it's because of vinyl, I'll point that out (because I always make excuses for my shit mixes). I'm not saying it's cool, but it's what a lot of DJs do anyway. I guess like you said, "I have to own up to them", so yeah, you (or I or whomever) can say "this mix was done in vinyl, that's why it's not 100% awesome like it usually is."




Personally I love spinning vinyl but I will be purchasing SL soon.


IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE. For real.

[Broken Home]

no, i agree with you completely.

but if you're just straight dj mixing, no tricks, no nothing, what difference does it make?

tell us how to play the record upside down.

Maybe they are doing tricks. I don't know, I didn't listen to the mix you're talking about.



I play cassettes bitches

Dude that's how MixMaster Mike started!

also: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kde-head/19313082/

[MINDPHUQ]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CC4JS13jTMw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CC4JS13jTMw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Perpetuum]

You're right Aaron, but all else being equal, I do better with Serato. So if I play a set that's a little more off than usual, and it's because of vinyl, I'll point that out (because I always make excuses for my shit mixes). I'm not saying it's cool, but it's what a lot of DJs do anyway. I guess like you said, "I have to own up to them", so yeah, you (or I or whomever) can say "this mix was done in vinyl, that's why it's not 100% awesome like it usually is."
It's really up to the individual DJ and obviously, neither way is right or wrong. Just personal preference.

That said, allow me to preemptively apologize for any future mixes that aren't 100%. Though I play CDs exclusively, I was playing vinyl anytime I fucked up. :D

[bkidz]

I play cassettes bitches

Fuck that . . . . I PLAY 8-TRACKS!!!!

[Master Miguel Lush]

Well, that's because you are from Guam, and everybody knows Guam is like 50 years behind

[MINDPHUQ]

i have a much easier time playing on cdj than vinyl.

Funny you say this, because it is the main reason I do not use CDJ's, they are too easy to use and take away from the skill of DJing.

Don't you like a challenge?

[Broken Home]

Funny you say this, because it is the main reason I do not use CDJ's, they are too easy to use and take away from the skill of DJing.

Don't you like a challenge?

hahahahahahaha

Yeah I agree Bulla, Daniella Downs really doesn't use much skill while DJing. What's up with that?

[daniella downs]

Funny you say this, because it is the main reason I do not use CDJ's, they are too easy to use and take away from the skill of DJing.

Don't you like a challenge?

moreso i dont like bouncing tables, shipping charges, waiting times, and paying more than 1 tune is worth because i have to buy it on vinyl.

i have records that i've kept because they will never be released digitally. i have about two crates worth. the rest if i wanted that badly, i could get on digital.

[bkidz]

Well, that's because you are from Guam, and everybody knows Guam is like 50 years behind

It's like Karate Kid II when Mr. Miyagi and Daniel go to Okanawa (sp)

FU Colombian!!1 haah

[daniella downs]

hahahahahahaha

Yeah I agree Bulla, Daniella Downs really doesn't use much skill while DJing. What's up with that?

and yet you mix 3 billion genres together and still play the opening slot.

it's a shame, aint it?

i think it's time for a chart.











disclaimer: im not trying to be a dick, i'm only fucking with you dan ;)

[Perpetuum]

and yet you mix 3 billion genres together and still play the opening slot.

it's a shame, aint it?

ETHERED.

[Master Miguel Lush]

and yet you mix 3 billion genres together and still play the opening slot.

bwahahahahaha

[MINDPHUQ]

boucing tables is part of the challenge. Come on man, Shorty's has the worst bouncing set up ever, and I loved playing vinyl on it. It was a challenge to me to be able to spin well there despite the moving setup.

This is the problem with today's DJ's, they want everything done easily or done for them. They want all the work taken out so they can look better.

jeez...


moreso i dont like bouncing tables, shipping charges, waiting times, and paying more than 1 tune is worth because i have to buy it on vinyl.

i have records that i've kept because they will never be released digitally. i have about two crates worth. the rest if i wanted that badly, i could get on digital.

[MURAMASA]

I think the logic is, there are people who just shrug when you say you play all vinyl, and there are people who think cds/laptops are bullshit and will specifically support you for being a vinyl dj.

I'm not saying it's right, but there are probably more people like this out there than most people think.

[MINDPHUQ]

Ian, I would put money on it that Dan would destroy you in a battle.


and yet you mix 3 billion genres together and still play the opening slot.

it's a shame, aint it?

i think it's time for a chart.











disclaimer: im not trying to be a dick, i'm only fucking with you dan ;)

[konversion]

hey, look at that! i helped spawn a discussion :D


i guess i mainly indicated "vinyl" because the last mix i recorded was all on cdjs. i had no intentions of saying "oh, hey, look at me. i'm awesome and old school and i mix vinyl". although i get a bigger boner when mixing vinyl, i don't see it as being superior to cds. whether you're using cds, vinyl, or traktor scratch (which is incredible, by the way), i give it the same level of respect.

i do agree with bulla on the difficulty as well. i like to still obtain the ability to mix straight up without seeing the pitch percentage. i also like to be able to read vinyl that i've never played or haven't played that often and know when and where to throw a track in and have it drop where i want it to in relation to the other record. cds and traktor/serato give you the pitch percentages so if you need to adjust the pitch to speed up or slow down a track, you know approx. where to move it back.

sooo... i forgot where i was going from here because i have a lot of shit to do at work but yeah, didn't mean to sound all poopy with throwing in "vinyl" into my post and all forms of djing are cool in my book. i actually use them all regularly :D

[MINDPHUQ]

also, branching out into other generes is the best thing any DJ could do.


and yet you mix 3 billion genres together and still play the opening slot.

[MURAMASA]

I think the logic is, there are people who just shrug when you say you play all vinyl, and there are people who think cds/laptops are bullshit and will specifically support you for being a vinyl dj.

I'm not saying it's right, but there are probably more people like this out there than most people think.

Er, this is a general statement, not about the aformentioned mix. :)

[Utopium]

Fuck that . . . . I PLAY 8-TRACKS!!!!

Cylinders are where the real action is:

http://www.wa4nup.com/crank/images/edisonstd-1.gif

[Tatts4Life]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CC4JS13jTMw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CC4JS13jTMw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

LOL

[daniella downs]

Ian, I would put money on it that Dan would destroy you in a battle.

dan also plays with a program that allows him to do stuff easier than on a cd.

and if you try to tell me that all the shit that cdjs can do that serato can do that it's easier on a cdj i'll call you a liar right now.

is all that shit part of the challenge, or is that making it easier?

[daniella downs]

also chris - if you put dan and i ont he same format, i'd love to take that challenge.

by same format, i mean vinyl. no cds, no serato, no nothing. just vinyl and a mixer.

i'd take the pepsi challenge with that one any day. just because i mix like i do does not mean that it's all i can do.

[Broken Home]

and yet you mix 3 billion genres together and still play the opening slot.

it's a shame, aint it?

i think it's time for a chart.











disclaimer: im not trying to be a dick, i'm only fucking with you dan ;)


ETHERED.


bwahahahahaha

LOL. I know you're just fucking with me, but anyway I have a chart just for this occasion (not my creation):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/119/294168009_b25decaddf.jpg

well played Ian :-) EVERYONE COME SEE ME OPEN AT MODERN TONIGHT!



Ian, I would put money on it that Dan would destroy you in a battle.

I don't know about that, dude has access to crazy Japanese dubs.

[daniella downs]

boucing tables is part of the challenge. Come on man, Shorty's has the worst bouncing set up ever, and I loved playing vinyl on it. It was a challenge to me to be able to spin well there despite the moving setup.

This is the problem with today's DJ's, they want everything done easily or done for them. They want all the work taken out so they can look better.

jeez...

yeah, don't you ride your bike around sf, instead of walking?

kids these days i swear.

[Broken Home]

also chris - if you put dan and i ont he same format, i'd love to take that challenge.

by same format, i mean vinyl. no cds, no serato, no nothing. just vinyl and a mixer.

i'd take the pepsi challenge with that one any day. just because i mix like i do does not mean that it's all i can do.

If we did a vinyl battle I can guarantee I would lose. I would also lose if it was a CDJ battle.

[konversion]

and konversion - im not really up to speed on current liquid, although i do quite like it when i hear it. i'll definitely be d/l'ing your mix later today =)

word. i definitely dig it. i hated it when i first started hearing it about 6 years ago but a friend let me listen to some tracks that made me fall in love with it :D



Cause Konversion's a douche... I can't speak for anyone else doing it...

oh, and thank you, george. i love you too :)

[Master Miguel Lush]

this thread is lame.

Ian is not what he used to be

[Perpetuum]

word. i definitely dig it. i hated it when i first started hearing it about 6 years ago but a friend let me listen to some tracks that made me fall in love with it :D
You're welcome.

[MINDPHUQ]

If we did a vinyl battle I can guarantee I would lose. I would also lose if it was a CDJ battle.

ya think?

[MINDPHUQ]

yeah, don't you ride your bike around sf, instead of walking?

kids these days i swear.

haven't rode that thing in a year man. sitting in the corner with 2 flat tires.

[konversion]

You're welcome.

no, you're welcome :D

[MINDPHUQ]

back to the arguement at hand...

so we do agree that is is harder to mix on vinyl than it is digitally, correct?

[Broken Home]

ya think?

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. My strength in vinyl and CD would be strictly track selection and maybe scratching (with vinyl only) but that's where it would end. I wouldn't be able to do anything really interesting with CDs except for maybe that stutter trick where you beat match to the stutter, and even that would probably end in disaster.

[Broken Home]

back to the arguement at hand...

so we do agree that is is harder to mix on vinyl than it is digitally, correct?

I DISAGREE.

[MINDPHUQ]

no worries... i was just joking pretty much.

I don't believe in battles, unless your a turntablist.

[MINDPHUQ]

I DISAGREE.

essplain

[Broken Home]

essplain

It's easier for me to use vinyl compared to CD players. Furthermore, "mixing digitally" can mean so many different things, some harder and some easier. Ever try to use that first-gen iPod mixer from Numark?

[Liftedtrance]

Ian,
Here are a few reasons why saying "mixed using vinyl" is good:

1. Bookings. If you're posting a mix to get bookings, it's important to say what you use. Say 2rip wanted to book Cliff after hearing his mix. Snatch doesn't have turntables, so knowing that Cliff's set was vinyl is important so he can plan accordingly. Same with that dude Endo that used two laptops and two MIDI controllers in his set -- that's important to know, as a promoter.

2. Saying that a mix was vinyl-only can explain some of the technical shortcomings of a mix such as pops and crackles, like Aaron said.

3. Saying a mix was vinyl-only can also be used to clarify the level of technical prowess. Throwing a scratch effect the way James Ziebillia does with the EFX, or in Ableton, is a different skill than scratching with vinyl. Some people consider the latter more impressive.

4. Similar to #2, vinyl can explain why the tunes are older than what that DJ usually plays.

I personally think everyone should always say how they made the mix including what hardware/software they used to record. It's free to post that shit and sharing knowledge is great.
fantastic post sir. I, too, wish people standardly shared what equipment was used to make a mix.

[MINDPHUQ]

makes sense.

for me digital is way easier to actually use. I can organize my music better, find it quicker, set cuepoints so I can mix quicker, serato remembers automatically the order you played tunes in which makes tracklisting easier, etc...

I still haven't really messed with these extra features in Serato, I'm pretty much just using it like 2 turntables to play my files with, no tricks, yet.


Funny story, the other day I came home and wanted to mix some baltimore club. I went through my serato folder and picked some stuff out, then realized I had all of them on vinyl still, so grabbed the records and spun them instead. I could have done more with Serato if I had all my cuepoints set and shit, but enjoyed spinning the vinyl much more.

[daniella downs]

ya think?

so much for you betting money, lol.

btw, i actually would like to see you when you come back here next =)


I DISAGREE.

really? i think it's harder to mix on vinyl than cd. hands down. it's adjusting something that's moving that's the harder part to me.

[lupitanahsee]

no offense to konversion (seriously), although i saw the title of his thread and it was one of the catalysts for this one.

but ever since the digital revolution really encapsulated dj'ing, some people (again, no offense meant their way) feel the need to say that their set/mix/whatever is vinyl.

now, from a live set standpoint, i don't see the point really, but can somewhat understand because it's more visual to the jaded old'uns in the audience who want to see the dj flip the record over to see what side they're going to play. for something like an oldskool mix, i can somewhat see it, even though half the stuff you can get digitally now anyways.

but for a dj mix, what difference does it make? it just means you arent playing the most current stuff.

also - when people say they play vinyl, does that include serato/final scratch/etc? i would think not (even though it is technically vinyl)

interested in opinions here.

and konversion - im not really up to speed on current liquid, although i do quite like it when i hear it. i'll definitely be d/l'ing your mix later today =)

cause ppl like to jerk themselves off.

:)

[MINDPHUQ]

so much for you betting money, lol.

btw, i actually would like to see you when you come back here next =)

you will. I'll be around, and at the Paradox on 8/29.





really? i think it's harder to mix on vinyl than cd. hands down. it's adjusting something that's moving that's the harder part to me.

another reason I don't like CDJ's, the platter doesn't move, which makes it harder for me. I like the Technics cd players...

[Broken Home]

really? i think it's harder to mix on vinyl than cd. hands down. it's adjusting something that's moving that's the harder part to me.

The hard part for me with CDs is I have trouble slowing them down and speeding them up. There's a million different ways to do it (with the +/- buttons, the fader, the actual platter) but I use CD players so rarely that I always forget. Like, how much do I need to turn the platter for it to slow down enough? I know all that stuff already on vinyl. Also, so matter how many times I watch that "how to scratch with a CDJ" video, I just can't do it.

And the only CD players I have at home are these decks:
http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110180

so of course I never use them and that's probably why it's so difficult for me.

[empath]

I'm playing next set off of one of these:

http://www.mytotalmoneymakeover.com/media/image/general/victrola.gif

I'm old school.

Recognize, bitches.

[daniella downs]

another reason I don't like CDJ's, the platter doesn't move, which makes it harder for me. I like the Technics cd players...

that is EXACTLY why i hate those.

if they didnt have the gauges and shit in the middle, i could deal, but i hate those things with a passion.



The hard part for me with CDs is I have trouble slowing them down and speeding them up. There's a million different ways to do it (with the +/- buttons, the fader, the actual platter) but I use CD players so rarely that I always forget. Like, how much do I need to turn the platter for it to slow down enough? I know all that stuff already on vinyl. Also, so matter how many times I watch that "how to scratch with a CDJ" video, I just can't do it.

And the only CD players I have at home are these decks:
http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110180

so of course I never use them and that's probably why it's so difficult for me.

i hate hate hate +/- buttons. i am useless when it comes to them.

[Broken Home]

i hate hate hate +/- buttons. i am useless when it comes to them.

I saw Charly using them a couple of weeks ago, he is a freak!

[Master Miguel Lush]

ian is useless

[stormryder]

Honestly, I'm seriously considering switching to Traktor Pro, letting it work out beat-matching, and concentrating much more on tweaking my music through effects, looping, etc. Basically moving the the same direction as Richie Hawtin.

Sure, I'll not be using vinyl or CD's, but I've gotten to the point where I don't really think beat matching is the be all/end all of DJing. I want to make my music value added.

[MURAMASA]

I saw Charly using them a couple of weeks ago, he is a freak!

I've played on a lot of crappy setups, so I guess I'm just used to it. I bitch a lot but I can be pretty versatile when I have to be. The trick to those buttons is that the longer you hold it, the steeper the bend gets. Just tap it repeatedly for smaller adjustments, adjust the pitch accordingly, listen for a couple of moments and repeat until your tracks are beatmatched. :)

[MINDPHUQ]

I've played on a lot of crappy setups, so I guess I'm just used to it. I bitch a lot but I can be pretty versatile when I have to be. The trick to those buttons is that the longer you hold it, the steeper the bend gets. Just tap it repeatedly for smaller adjustments, adjust the pitch accordingly, listen for a couple of moments and repeat until your tracks are beatmatched. :)

kind of like holding the 33rpm button down while tapping the 45rpm button on a 1200.

a little easier on the CDJ though

[Tatts4Life]

Honestly, I'm seriously considering switching to Traktor Pro, letting it work out beat-matching, and concentrating much more on tweaking my music through effects, looping, etc. Basically moving the the same direction as Richie Hawtin.

Sure, I'll not be using vinyl or CD's, but I've gotten to the point where I don't really think beat matching is the be all/end all of DJing. I want to make my music value added.

I loved watching that video you posted on facebook.

[spiggums]

Funny you say this, because it is the main reason I do not use CDJ's, they are too easy to use and take away from the skill of DJing.

Don't you like a challenge?

sure and there are all sorts of great ways you can challenge yourself when DJing outside of having to rely on hovering over the tables and mix gingerly because the setup is crap...

[MINDPHUQ]

The hard part for me with CDs is I have trouble slowing them down and speeding them up.

initially this was my problem with CDJ's also. I never owned a pair, I tought myself how to use them in-between mixing records while working at Sonar. It took awhile to get the "touch" down but it wasn't hard after a few nights practice. It really does take some getting used to though.

I never really messed with the other CDJ features, same with Serato, haven't really used any of the extra features yet.

[Joe L.]

I recently booked Garth and Qburns...

I was surprised to find out both are still vinyl purists. Both of their sets were fantastic and made me realize something. Keep in mind I play mostly digital now days...

A purist is someone who digs and digs for those gems. They get their hands dirty and the best thing about them.... they don't care about playing ALL upfront tracks. Their collections consist of records from yrs worth of collecting and it's a TON of shit that will never be released digitally. They go before a gig and pick out a bag of records (like we use to) and put so much thought into what they might play that night vs. having every track at their disposal. Also I notice purists tend to play the best of the best.... not very many filler tracks. Garth played one of the dopest sets I've heard in the last few yrs.... going through disco, funk, house, psych rock, breaks, acid..... it was so on point. And he played records from 70s to the present.

All I'm saying is I have a new found respect for DJs like that.

[konversion]

cause ppl like to jerk themselves off.

:)

i don't think self-pleasuring has anything to do with anything... =x

[MINDPHUQ]

I recently booked Garth and Qburns...

I was surprised to find out both are still vinyl purists. Both of their sets were fantastic and made me realize something. Keep in mind I play mostly digital now days...

A purist is someone who digs and digs for those gems. They get their hands dirty and the best thing about them.... they don't care about playing ALL upfront tracks. Their collections consist of records from yrs worth of collecting and it's a TON of shit that will never be released digitally. They go before a gig and pick out a bag of records (like we use to) and put so much thought into what they might play that night vs. having every track at their disposal. Also I notice purists tend to play the best of the best.... not very many filler tracks. Garth played one of the dopest sets I've heard in the last few yrs.... going through disco, funk, house, psych rock, breaks, acid..... it was so on point. And he played records from 70s to the present.

All I'm saying is I have a new found respect for DJs like that.


Thank You Joe L. Perfect.

Garth is probably one of the best "musical" DJ's in this scene, hands down. Jeno a close second. Two of my biggest influences, next to Doc.

[Joe L.]

Here's an article that touches on the art of collecting vinyl..... it's got a very human element to the article, and doesn't drive home the point that vinyl is better; just more aesthetically pleasing. But the human element is important.... I mean, it's what separates us from jukeboxes right?

http://www.residentadvisor.net/images/features/2006/vinyl-will-survive.jpg

Following on from Tyler C. Hellard's pro-digital screed last week, this time around record lover Peter Chambers explains why, like Gloria Gaynor, vinyl will survive…

You can't make a rational case for choosing vinyl, and I wouldn't – there isn't a single one that's compelling. Digital is cheaper, less wasteful, more malleable and far more portable. There's virtually nothing to store, scratch, warp or shatter. Records meanwhile remain cumbersome, fragile and expensive. And yet, in spite of all this, I will continue buying, collecting, playing with and paying for the damned things, for as long as I'm willing and able to. Why?

Well, there are lots of reasons. First of all, it's because vinyl has life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not such a caner – I don't think that my records are alive in the way my lover or my dog is. They don't eat, drink, bark or bone. But, like us, they exist in space and through time – they have their own history, they wear their own scars, they need our care. They have a world.

When you dig for vinyl and you find something you're looking for, you don't just uncover the music. There's a sense of connectedness, both of your desire to the sound and the sound's embodiment in the object. Who knows the circumstances surrounding the original purchase? Maybe the record got sold because of a drug habit, a death, or a disappointment. Or maybe because of indifference. But in every case the piece you hold in your hands is the silent bearer of a story, a mute witness to whatever and wherever it went. It also carries the signal of its producers, embodying their dreams. I think Danny Wang said it once: second-hand record stores are such sad places. That's because they're dream graveyards. At one point, a group of people invested all their time and talent in making it. It was going to make them famous…

At the receiving end, the previous owners of a record invested their best hope in it too. So they chose it, they took it and kept it with them, and it slowly mapped itself into the web of their memories. Or they hated it, and flogged it. I don't recall every intricacy of what I did last week, but I can tell you almost without fail the circumstances surrounding each record I own, and explain the resonance it has, what it evokes. It's an object of music and of memory, and to me that gives it the true aura of an artefact, and makes it deserving of respect, reverence. I also love the presence of the music in the scratch. The groove is a perfect visual representation of the metaphor of what the thing is and does, and the music is there in a way that digital formats, even in whatever visual/waveform representations they use, aren't. Functionally, this makes absolutely no difference. 'Visual mixing' of the kind now possible with digital obviously has advantages, but it's always at a distance. Like talking through glass.

A lot of DJs' selections turn to shit after they start using digital. Somehow - no, because of all those choices, they're unable to make a single interesting one. This is no coincidence.


Records are also incredibly sensual objects, and this has always been their advantage for mixing. Even with the abilities the new technologies have given us to loop, sample and freely choose key and pitch (which is in every way musically superior as an instrument) there's no substitute for being able to touch, to play by feel. Serato and Final Scratch have overcome this limitation, but even in 'the best of both worlds' there's more than a little of nowhere and nothing at all. Mp3 doesn't even exist, at least, not in the way we and our records do. It's a nothing and it exists nowhere but in blips on our portable nonplaces.

Crucially, choosing a track through drag and drop is utterly different to digging through a box with a very limited selection thoroughly and carefully chosen before leaving home, or so you'd hope. In fact, the irony of having a greater number of choices is that it's invariably harder to choose, or easier to make do with default choices, which are not real choices at all. A lot of DJs' selections turn to shit after they start using digital. Somehow - no, because of all those choices, they're unable to make a single interesting one. This is no coincidence.

There's no sacrifice involved in collecting digital formats either. Any two-bit chump can download a huge body of work in a matter of days, something that would have required a huge expenditure of time, effort and money on the part of a vinyl collector. When you go and see a veteran play her set, she's carrying with her whole decades of memories whittled down to some eighty selections. Packing a box requires further sacrifice, further selection, further acts of will, respect and love. You have to think, choose, include, reject. Without these repeated sacrifices, it's all to easy fall prey to the tyranny of 'any old thing'. 'Oh shit, I need a track with drums to mix out of this, um… shit, only sixteen bars to go, oh, okay, this'll do…' Click, click, drag, drop. You hope the audience won't feel the difference, and you fool yourself that you feel anything at all. I wouldn't argue that this is a necessary outcome of digital, but it's going to happen far more often.

The same is true of Ableton: paradoxically the program's incredible power, speed and flexibility means you can churn out an average tune, not even in a matter of hours, but on the fly. 'You can do anything on Ableton' and you can, but most people do less and less. They don't make minimal, they make very little of a lot. In fact, in a turn of events that would shock grandpappy, it's easier to record a track than to write a song. All too often it shows: lazy drum programming, boring melodies with no tension or development, and a screaming, dithering, swarming shitload of plugin effects to cook the tune in, so we don't have to listen to the half-baked mess. And how good are you as a musician really, Mr DJ? Can you really perform with the same level of musicality that's contained within a well-made record, something a talented, dedicated person invested everything in for days, weeks, months? Why not let the record play, if it's a good one. If it's not, no wonder you're bored, no wonder you need to fiddle.

Back to the body – the other quiet crime of indifference that this 'choice' contains is the death of another related artform: cover art. One of the things that make records so valuable and beautiful is the incredible creativity that goes into a lot of the covers, even if it's the artful details of the colours and fonts chosen on the plainest of my EPs, or the 'mastered by X at the Exchange' scratched into the run off. No doubt the artisans who manufactured gilt frames for heavy oil paintings mourned the passing of their time, and maybe all systems of artistic representation are not only bound to, but should wither and die. It's still sad.

Like most 'technological advancements', digital isn't an improvement of what went before, it's a rationalisation. Never forget that. From a consumer point of view, CD wasn't 'better' than vinyl, and at least until the mid-nineties, a well-pressed record played better through a good component system (again, all put together through individual choices) than most CDs, even with, and probably because of the sound artifacts and sub-audible frequencies in the record. We're losing them, too. But they're inaudible, right? Never forget, it was the 'record' companies, greedy to reduce distribution costs and fit more units on shelves, who pushed for CD, and we paid more for less. Three times the price for something a third of the size and a fraction of the cost to make. Now they're reaping the whirlwind, and a big and happy fuck you all.

Vinyl dies too, but not all at once. It goes slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with records.


The technology might end up getting us over the barrel too: it isn't 'simply better' – it's a new entanglement that solves some problems and embroils us in others. I'm late finishing this article. That's because, not three days ago, my Powerbook, on which I do, well, almost everything, decided to play Hungry Hungry Hard Drives and eat itself for breakfast. Luckily, all my media and documents are backed up – are yours? Don't think it won't happen. Houses burn and vinyl will too, but data loss is a completely new kind of risk. If any of you still have the XT you grew up with, go pull it out of the garage, turn it on and see if it still works. Then, take one of the diskettes with all your old games on 'em and see if you can load them. Captain Comic, Space Quest, all those daggy old things. Remember them? The only story most of mine can tell me now is one that goes from beginning to end in three words: permanent fatal errors. Vinyl dies too, but not all at once. It goes slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with records. They're not dead, they're elderly, and they need your care and respect.

I suppose this whole thing's based on a bogus choice 'vinyl or digital'. We don't have to choose. I'll eventually buy myself a digital interface and start using it, in conjunction with my records. But don't expect me to love the interface. That's a leap I'll never make. Can you? Do you really 'love' your interface? Can you cherish a hard disk? I can only speak for myself and my records, the only musical objects I keep that capture my imagination, just as they capture something of the magic of music in space and time. And that's something that no data packet can ever do.

Sounding off is a column for free comment from readers on any aspect of DJ and club culture. If you have a burning issue you'd like to get off your chest, send your submission or proposal to info@residentadvisor.net with the subject line 'Sounding off'.

[Joe L.]

Thank You Joe L. Perfect.

Garth is probably one of the best "musical" DJ's in this scene, hands down. Jeno a close second. Two of my biggest influences, next to Doc.

Even though you moved to digital now too Chris, I know you can understand the art of collecting records. Esp you.

[MINDPHUQ]

Even though you moved to digital now too Chris, I know you can understand the art of collecting records. Esp you.

Thanks man. I do still own a wall of 8,000+ records ;)

I just record them now so I can play them digitally and not have them leave the house to get broken, stolen, etc...

[MINDPHUQ]

I like this part:

"Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with records. They're not dead, they're elderly, and they need your care and respect."

[daniella downs]

i mean of course there's still a place for records.

when i was in sf, i would go to ameoba from time to time and buy records. i still love buying old tunes on vinyl if i can.

[Joe L.]

yea... that's pretty much all I buy on vinyl. Classics, older tunes, and those few releases that are new but vinyl only. But I still buy a good amount.

And I rip them to digital.... I'm not pro digital or vinyl.... I'm pro good music.

[MINDPHUQ]

yeah man, i hit up amoeba weekly. always leave with at least 20-25 or so records. There's a TON of good old tunes in their bins for $.50 - $1.00, and most are $2.99-4.99 each. Very reasonable. I've been buying back alot of tunes I sold before I was recording...

[zarbizarre]

Here's an article that touches on the art of collecting vinyl..... it's got a very human element to the article, and doesn't drive home the point that vinyl is better; just more aesthetically pleasing. But the human element is important.... I mean, it's what separates us from jukeboxes right?

http://www.residentadvisor.net/images/features/2006/vinyl-will-survive.jpg

Following on from Tyler C. Hellard's pro-digital screed last week, this time around record lover Peter Chambers explains why, like Gloria Gaynor, vinyl will survive…

You can't make a rational case for choosing vinyl, and I wouldn't – there isn't a single one that's compelling. Digital is cheaper, less wasteful, more malleable and far more portable. There's virtually nothing to store, scratch, warp or shatter. Records meanwhile remain cumbersome, fragile and expensive. And yet, in spite of all this, I will continue buying, collecting, playing with and paying for the damned things, for as long as I'm willing and able to. Why?

Well, there are lots of reasons. First of all, it's because vinyl has life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not such a caner – I don't think that my records are alive in the way my lover or my dog is. They don't eat, drink, bark or bone. But, like us, they exist in space and through time – they have their own history, they wear their own scars, they need our care. They have a world.

When you dig for vinyl and you find something you're looking for, you don't just uncover the music. There's a sense of connectedness, both of your desire to the sound and the sound's embodiment in the object. Who knows the circumstances surrounding the original purchase? Maybe the record got sold because of a drug habit, a death, or a disappointment. Or maybe because of indifference. But in every case the piece you hold in your hands is the silent bearer of a story, a mute witness to whatever and wherever it went. It also carries the signal of its producers, embodying their dreams. I think Danny Wang said it once: second-hand record stores are such sad places. That's because they're dream graveyards. At one point, a group of people invested all their time and talent in making it. It was going to make them famous…

At the receiving end, the previous owners of a record invested their best hope in it too. So they chose it, they took it and kept it with them, and it slowly mapped itself into the web of their memories. Or they hated it, and flogged it. I don't recall every intricacy of what I did last week, but I can tell you almost without fail the circumstances surrounding each record I own, and explain the resonance it has, what it evokes. It's an object of music and of memory, and to me that gives it the true aura of an artefact, and makes it deserving of respect, reverence. I also love the presence of the music in the scratch. The groove is a perfect visual representation of the metaphor of what the thing is and does, and the music is there in a way that digital formats, even in whatever visual/waveform representations they use, aren't. Functionally, this makes absolutely no difference. 'Visual mixing' of the kind now possible with digital obviously has advantages, but it's always at a distance. Like talking through glass.

A lot of DJs' selections turn to shit after they start using digital. Somehow - no, because of all those choices, they're unable to make a single interesting one. This is no coincidence.


Records are also incredibly sensual objects, and this has always been their advantage for mixing. Even with the abilities the new technologies have given us to loop, sample and freely choose key and pitch (which is in every way musically superior as an instrument) there's no substitute for being able to touch, to play by feel. Serato and Final Scratch have overcome this limitation, but even in 'the best of both worlds' there's more than a little of nowhere and nothing at all. Mp3 doesn't even exist, at least, not in the way we and our records do. It's a nothing and it exists nowhere but in blips on our portable nonplaces.

Crucially, choosing a track through drag and drop is utterly different to digging through a box with a very limited selection thoroughly and carefully chosen before leaving home, or so you'd hope. In fact, the irony of having a greater number of choices is that it's invariably harder to choose, or easier to make do with default choices, which are not real choices at all. A lot of DJs' selections turn to shit after they start using digital. Somehow - no, because of all those choices, they're unable to make a single interesting one. This is no coincidence.

There's no sacrifice involved in collecting digital formats either. Any two-bit chump can download a huge body of work in a matter of days, something that would have required a huge expenditure of time, effort and money on the part of a vinyl collector. When you go and see a veteran play her set, she's carrying with her whole decades of memories whittled down to some eighty selections. Packing a box requires further sacrifice, further selection, further acts of will, respect and love. You have to think, choose, include, reject. Without these repeated sacrifices, it's all to easy fall prey to the tyranny of 'any old thing'. 'Oh shit, I need a track with drums to mix out of this, um… shit, only sixteen bars to go, oh, okay, this'll do…' Click, click, drag, drop. You hope the audience won't feel the difference, and you fool yourself that you feel anything at all. I wouldn't argue that this is a necessary outcome of digital, but it's going to happen far more often.

The same is true of Ableton: paradoxically the program's incredible power, speed and flexibility means you can churn out an average tune, not even in a matter of hours, but on the fly. 'You can do anything on Ableton' and you can, but most people do less and less. They don't make minimal, they make very little of a lot. In fact, in a turn of events that would shock grandpappy, it's easier to record a track than to write a song. All too often it shows: lazy drum programming, boring melodies with no tension or development, and a screaming, dithering, swarming shitload of plugin effects to cook the tune in, so we don't have to listen to the half-baked mess. And how good are you as a musician really, Mr DJ? Can you really perform with the same level of musicality that's contained within a well-made record, something a talented, dedicated person invested everything in for days, weeks, months? Why not let the record play, if it's a good one. If it's not, no wonder you're bored, no wonder you need to fiddle.

Back to the body – the other quiet crime of indifference that this 'choice' contains is the death of another related artform: cover art. One of the things that make records so valuable and beautiful is the incredible creativity that goes into a lot of the covers, even if it's the artful details of the colours and fonts chosen on the plainest of my EPs, or the 'mastered by X at the Exchange' scratched into the run off. No doubt the artisans who manufactured gilt frames for heavy oil paintings mourned the passing of their time, and maybe all systems of artistic representation are not only bound to, but should wither and die. It's still sad.

Like most 'technological advancements', digital isn't an improvement of what went before, it's a rationalisation. Never forget that. From a consumer point of view, CD wasn't 'better' than vinyl, and at least until the mid-nineties, a well-pressed record played better through a good component system (again, all put together through individual choices) than most CDs, even with, and probably because of the sound artifacts and sub-audible frequencies in the record. We're losing them, too. But they're inaudible, right? Never forget, it was the 'record' companies, greedy to reduce distribution costs and fit more units on shelves, who pushed for CD, and we paid more for less. Three times the price for something a third of the size and a fraction of the cost to make. Now they're reaping the whirlwind, and a big and happy fuck you all.

Vinyl dies too, but not all at once. It goes slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with records.


The technology might end up getting us over the barrel too: it isn't 'simply better' – it's a new entanglement that solves some problems and embroils us in others. I'm late finishing this article. That's because, not three days ago, my Powerbook, on which I do, well, almost everything, decided to play Hungry Hungry Hard Drives and eat itself for breakfast. Luckily, all my media and documents are backed up – are yours? Don't think it won't happen. Houses burn and vinyl will too, but data loss is a completely new kind of risk. If any of you still have the XT you grew up with, go pull it out of the garage, turn it on and see if it still works. Then, take one of the diskettes with all your old games on 'em and see if you can load them. Captain Comic, Space Quest, all those daggy old things. Remember them? The only story most of mine can tell me now is one that goes from beginning to end in three words: permanent fatal errors. Vinyl dies too, but not all at once. It goes slowly, just like we do. Do yourself a favour, and age gracefully with records. They're not dead, they're elderly, and they need your care and respect.

I suppose this whole thing's based on a bogus choice 'vinyl or digital'. We don't have to choose. I'll eventually buy myself a digital interface and start using it, in conjunction with my records. But don't expect me to love the interface. That's a leap I'll never make. Can you? Do you really 'love' your interface? Can you cherish a hard disk? I can only speak for myself and my records, the only musical objects I keep that capture my imagination, just as they capture something of the magic of music in space and time. And that's something that no data packet can ever do.

Sounding off is a column for free comment from readers on any aspect of DJ and club culture. If you have a burning issue you'd like to get off your chest, send your submission or proposal to info@residentadvisor.net with the subject line 'Sounding off'.



tl;dr

cliff's notes version?

[stormryder]

Honestly, there is still a lot of tight ass techno released on vinyl. But I'm not willing to pay horrendous exchange rates and international shipping on it, so yeah, I basically just steal it.

If you make it too hard for me to purchase your music, then you are going to have issues with me paying for it.

[DJKean]

hey, look at that! i helped spawn a discussion :D


i guess i mainly indicated "vinyl" because the last mix i recorded was all on cdjs. i had no intentions of saying "oh, hey, look at me. i'm awesome and old school and i mix vinyl". although i get a bigger boner when mixing vinyl, i don't see it as being superior to cds. whether you're using cds, vinyl, or traktor scratch (which is incredible, by the way), i give it the same level of respect.

i do agree with bulla on the difficulty as well. i like to still obtain the ability to mix straight up without seeing the pitch percentage. i also like to be able to read vinyl that i've never played or haven't played that often and know when and where to throw a track in and have it drop where i want it to in relation to the other record. cds and traktor/serato give you the pitch percentages so if you need to adjust the pitch to speed up or slow down a track, you know approx. where to move it back.

sooo... i forgot where i was going from here because i have a lot of shit to do at work but yeah, didn't mean to sound all poopy with throwing in "vinyl" into my post and all forms of djing are cool in my book. i actually use them all regularly :D


Dude, you're like silent fuckin bob. lol awesome.

[DJKean]

Thanks man. I do still own a wall of 8,000+ records ;)

I just record them now so I can play them digitally and not have them leave the house to get broken, stolen, etc...


nice.

[konversion]

Dude, you're like silent fuckin bob. lol awesome.

shoulda been wearing a trenchcoat and then finished it all off by taking a drag from my cigarette

[daniella downs]

Honestly, there is still a lot of tight ass techno released on vinyl. But I'm not willing to pay horrendous exchange rates and international shipping on it, so yeah, I basically just steal it.

If you make it too hard for me to purchase your music, then you are going to have issues with me paying for it.



tbh, that's the way i feel about things as well.

[konversion]

agreed. that's the reason i got traktor scratch. i mean, seriously, what's 2.50 for an mp3 against 12 for vinyl?

[dubsteptim]

besides dubstep, is there any EDM genre left thats mostly vinyl???

[Rican]

Polkastep...

it will never conform... hell its part polka!

[konversion]

best genre evar!

http://www-tc.pbs.org/riverofsong/teachers/pic/polka.gif

[unknown dj]

all my sets are vinyl...... no cds yet

[D ain't famous]

agreed. that's the reason i got traktor scratch. i mean, seriously, what's 2.50 for an mp3 against 12 for vinyl?

Meh I haven't made the full switch to digital yet. Even when I get SL I think I'll still buy vinyl because at times I'm a promo whore and can't wait for the full release or certain labels don't have digital releases. And I solved the problem that I had w/ paying $12 per record, by ordering from the UK. I paid $28(including shipping) for 3 records.

[konversion]

oh, i don't plan to be completely digital either. i'd much rather have a backup plan instead of relying on just a computer for my track selection. that's why i'll have both cds and vinyl in case shit hits the fan. i don't care what computer you have, they can fail so i don't want to rely 100% on it.

[mojojones]

besides dubstep, is there any EDM genre left thats mostly vinyl???

Underground or Deep House? maybe?

on the flip side of that there are some newer genres that are almost entirely digital, newer Fidget House is like 95% digital

Blog House (maybe not a real genre per-se) 100% digital by nature

also on the production side, there is more experimenation that can be done of the digital side with the low end content of a track than on vinyl . . .

i myself try all sorts of crazy shit with the bass that would probably cause a needle to skip if the track was pressed to vinyl . . . then again there probably is way to transfer that crazy expirmental bass to vinyl, but i don't have access to professional studio and experienced mix down engineer and mastering engineer, etc etc

[konversion]

you kids and your new crazy techno.

what the fuck is blog house?

[Rican]

And I solved the problem that I had w/ paying $12 per record, by ordering from the UK. I paid $28(including shipping) for 3 records.

Yeah I used to order all of my vinyl from the UK... it would be roughly the same price, if not cheaper, plus I'd get the new tunes two weeks before the local shops and that's with the 1-2 wk shipping time. I would still buy sometimes from the local shops if they had some vinyl I passed up the first time but later wanted to get...

I fought going digital for a long time. I even at one point half gave in by only buying one CDJ so I'd still have to play half vinyl... but the costs combined with the fact that I get lots of tunes sent to me that friends make and promos, so that pushed me to going all digital. I still have all of my records and don't plan on ripping any of them, so I will still play vinyl and still take vinyl to almost all my gigs, but i'm pretty much all CDs now...

I may get a traktor or scratch down the road, but don't know if I like the idea of lugging my laptop to gigs haha

[daniella downs]

you kids and your new crazy techno.

what the fuck is blog house?

fidget/electro that is given away on blogs.

that's it really.

[konversion]

oh yeah? why is it given it's own genre title?

[mojojones]

what the fuck is blog house?


music that produces give out for free on purpose to music blogs - reasons why

1. its a bootleg remix or has uncleared samples so it can't be released digital by label (similar to white label, which were OK to put out on vinyl with no contact info, but Beatport, Itunes, etc don't allow you to sell bootlegs on their sites)

2. its a scene in which Artists just give out their music for free, as promo material, they don't expect to make money off the sales, so just give it out for free in hopes of getting DJ bookings (and make $$ of that) instead of selling tracks on Beatport

stylistic that sound is usually somewhere between Fidget House, electro House, indie dance music, it can really have any sort of sound to it, it can even by breaks or dubstep, or real any genre . . .

Blog House is just a catch-all name for tracks that people just give out for free . . . be it bootlegs, giving out stuff for free for promo for tours, etc etc

i don't think its a real genre per se, more of a description or classification or something . . .

[daniella downs]

and for a while there it was really shittily produced.

but now that it's caught on like it has, you tend to see a lot more bigger names doing it.

and @ konversion - it's not really it's own genre.

[dubsteptim]

yeah i was about to ask about 'whitelabels' since w digital they dont exist per se on someplace ud buy from... but free on blogs makes sense

[refyug86]

besides dubstep, is there any EDM genre left thats mostly vinyl???

From what i've seen vinyl's still prevalent in the London DnB scene, mainly cause a lot of the tracks that make a lot of noise in the club/on the radio get released on vinyl first, lotta punters/DJs look to get the tracks while they're still fresh, by the time the track is released on MP3 format it's already been rinsed out.

[konversion]

ah, i see, kinda like clownstep; not really a genre.

[daniella downs]

yeah i was about to ask about 'whitelabels' since w digital they dont exist per se on someplace ud buy from... but free on blogs makes sense

depends on the genre.

funk breaks, for example, is still a vinyl driven market (which is royally annoying for those of us that do like it, and would consider playing it from time to time if more was available digitally).

a lot of bootlegs still come out on vinyl, but it's really expensive to put a tune out on vinyl with distibution and whatnot, so sometimes it's just given away free on blogs for the reason that mike listed.

[daniella downs]

From what i've seen vinyl's still prevalent in the London DnB scene, mainly cause a lot of the tracks that make a lot of noise in the club/on the radio get released on vinyl first, lotta punters/DJs look to get the tracks while they're still fresh, by the time the track is released on MP3 format it's already been rinsed out.

you just said the shining point -

radio.


there's a much bigger market when you have such major radio support. most us markets dont. sf does. the scene in sf is huge.

[dubsteptim]

yeah theres a dope station out in SF... cant remember the name but ive download more than a few sets off of it...

[daniella downs]

92.7, or 92.3 i can't remember.

it's mainly electro house and whatnot, but every now and then they'd play some cool shit. and the lunchtime guest dj's were good. especially when they were playing oldskool stuff.

they used to play the freestyler's in love with you, and it was like WOW, this is on the fucking radio.

[D ain't famous]

I fought going digital for a long time. I even at one point half gave in by only buying one CDJ so I'd still have to play half vinyl...

Yeah I feel you on that. I used to cut dubs, but that got expensive! Not everyone can be like Joe Nice. Honestly if I got sorted like I used to and was playing out as much as I used to, I probably would cut dubs still. Thats just me tho...

[dj face]

i started on vinyl. i love mixing on vinyl, but the cost in terms of time and money were prohibitive. i have a cdj as well, which helped out a lot. i would have bought a second one to get better at it and switch to cdj only, but i have (as ian would say) been rather hermetical in the last year or so. i've instead switched to ableton live (though i did experiment a bit with earlier versions of traktor) to produce my radio shows and now podcasts.

my goal is to share awesome new tunes with like-minded people. for me, mixing digitally means a lot of programming and achieving harmonic transitions. using ableton is convenient for me because i don't have a whole lot of free time, the bulk of which is spent shopping online for tunes and programming the sets. i either use ableton in the live format or arrangement format, depending on how i'm feeling. but either way, i can achieve perfectly mixed sets in a reasonable amount of time.

so for my purposes, mixing with ableton is perfect. but if i were to go out and play again (it's been a while...) i would probably burn a shit ton of tunes to cd, and bring a few choice tracks on vinyl as well.

i guess it all depends on what your definition of a dj is. but i've tried pretty much every format (except serato), and i really enjoy mixing on vinyl. if i had another cdj i would probably be in good shape to get as comfortable with that as i am with vinyl. but right now i'm happy with my ableton live and m-audio midi keyboard setup.

blam.

[MINDPHUQ]

92.7, or 92.3 i can't remember.

it's mainly electro house and whatnot, but every now and then they'd play some cool shit. and the lunchtime guest dj's were good. especially when they were playing oldskool stuff.

they used to play the freestyler's in love with you, and it was like WOW, this is on the fucking radio.


92.7

for the most part they play crappy commercial shit, but I have heard some good shit, and 2 Bad Mice's "Bombscare" a few times on there.

[MINDPHUQ]

Ian, I thought you'd get a kick out of this... my first turntable, 1976.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs008.snc1/2850_1096696530732_1026175464_30295235_6614644_n.jpg

[daniella downs]

wow, if only you still had those pants.

[MURAMASA]

wow, if only you still had those pants.

Hahaha, I was thinking the same thing.

[MINDPHUQ]

i know, right. props to my mom for sending me a box of old pics this week :)

[konversion]

yeah, those pants are killin' it. i bet you could find a similar pair at the goodwill :)

[daniella downs]

he lives in sf.

i am sure finding those pants are NO problem.

[Christine]

I recently booked Garth and Qburns...

I was surprised to find out both are still vinyl purists. Both of their sets were fantastic and made me realize something. Keep in mind I play mostly digital now days...

A purist is someone who digs and digs for those gems. They get their hands dirty and the best thing about them.... they don't care about playing ALL upfront tracks. Their collections consist of records from yrs worth of collecting and it's a TON of shit that will never be released digitally. They go before a gig and pick out a bag of records (like we use to) and put so much thought into what they might play that night vs. having every track at their disposal. Also I notice purists tend to play the best of the best.... not very many filler tracks. Garth played one of the dopest sets I've heard in the last few yrs.... going through disco, funk, house, psych rock, breaks, acid..... it was so on point. And he played records from 70s to the present.

All I'm saying is I have a new found respect for DJs like that.
Amen!!